Ask The Pilot

[jb747]

With the posible exception of ejection seats?

Even then, a controlled pull is the ideal. I recall one seat design in which a single handed yank of the lower handle could pull it a bit sideways, and it wouldn't fire....

 

[jb747]

Thanks again . I suspect we'll have different views on this, but I'm not hugely enthusiastic about arriving early - say 1/2hr or more after long haul. Yes, we are on the ground, so ATC can't stuff us around, but invariably I find that after the cheery "We're early" announcement comes the downer - "the gate is occupied, so we'll just have to park here for a while."

I know it makes b-all difference to when we get away from the airport, but I'd rather have a longer in-air journey and hence have the freedoms that that entails, over landing early and being strapped in for an extended period. Of course, in the grand scheme of things, not a big deal.

It's unusual for a gate to be unavailable...and mostly happens in Australia.

But, if you're that early, they've probably been pedalling slowly all night, plus you've just as likely had a bit of a delay at the departure gate. There's not much 'freedom' involved in a low level holding pattern, so at that stage of the affairs, you're better off on the ground.

Most gate delays occur when the previous aircraft is late to depart, not so much the inbound being early.

 

[jb747]

I was waiting to take off from MEL the other day in a queue because the high winds had closed the other runway.

Watching the spacing of aircraft landing and taking off, it seemed that they were allowing much longer times than I see with overseas airports. A couple of times as a flight was coming in to land I know that in the US they would have let one of the departing aircraft take off ahead of it.

Is there much of a difference in the amount of spacing that ATC allow between planes, and does it vary from country to country or airport to airport?

Every country has it's own set of ATC rules. Some are very close to the ICAO standard, and so, in our paperwork, they barely rate a mention. Others, like the USA, have a completely different set of rules. Australia has a large section of differences....

Getting aircraft away in the gaps is an art form. In the UK, they want aircraft to start moving onto the runway the second they have a provisional clearance, and not to wait for the preceding aircraft to be some indeterminate distance down the runway. In Oz, line up clearances never come before a landing aircraft is well past you...so a good 10-15 seconds...the rest of the world gives provisional line up clearances as a matter of course. The A380 is very slow to get lined up...and cannot get into a gap of less than about 6 miles, which makes departing an issue when ATC have arrivals at nice 5 mile spacing.

I'm not all that inclined towards using the USA as an example of good ATC though....just because they do it doesn't mean it's a good idea.

 

[markis10]

In Oz, line up clearances never come before a landing aircraft is well past you...so a good 10-15 seconds...the rest of the world gives provisional line up clearances as a matter of course. The A380 is very slow to get lined up...and cannot get into a gap of less than about 6 miles, which makes departing an issue when ATC have arrivals at nice 5 mile spacing.

I wonder if that's something unique to the A380, AFAIK "xx_ on final, behind that aircraft line up and wait" is still used, it certainly was when I was working Sydney tower and elsewhere.

 

[jb747]

I wonder if that's something unique to the A380, AFAIK "xx_ on final, behind that aircraft line up and wait" is still used, it certainly was when I was working Sydney tower and elsewhere.

Don't know. It was certainly something I recalled hearing a lot in the past, but I asked about it in Melbourne a few months back as was told no. It was a real issue, as the landing aircraft were well past the intersection before anyone was being lined up, so the seconds lost on each cycle really added up.

I've just been through some of my emails, and found one from January 2012 about Melbourne not issuing provisional clearances...in that case it resulted in a go around.

 

[markis10]

Don't know. It was certainly something I recalled hearing a lot in the past, but I asked about it in Melbourne a few months back as was told no. It was a real issue, as the landing aircraft were well past the intersection before anyone was being lined up, so the seconds lost on each cycle really added up.

We have some current controllers who maybe able to shed more light. I can imagine how it would slow things down, perhaps stop bars have caused the change, ruling out conditional line up clearances?

 

[jb747]

We have some current controllers who maybe able to shed more light. I can imagine how it would slow things down, perhaps stop bars have caused the change, ruling out conditional line up clearances?

They cause issues in Dubai quite regularly. You have to cross the active landing runway to get to the take off runway on most departures. They'll often give you a provisional clearance, but if they're then a little slow with the lights (and especially if you have to remind them), the gap just disappears, and with it the crossing opportunity.

And some people just cross the bars, but that's a terrible habit to start.

 

[markis10]

Did some digging, conditional clearances can not be used with stop bars in operation according to air services.

http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/wp-content/uploads/runway_stopbars_presentation.pdf

 

[petercr]

Stop bars? Is that like flashing school zone lights AND a person in high-viz with a stop/go sign? (except slightly higher risk involved)

 

[markis10]

And some people just cross the bars, but that's a terrible habit to start.

That's a nightmare in the making :shock:

 

[Flying Fox]

I'm aware that SYD has curfews and was wondering if anyone is in the ATC tower during the curfew hours or do all the staff go home during this time?

Would this be the same case for all ATC towers when airports are closed?

 

[markis10]

I'm aware that SYD has curfews and was wondering if anyone is in the ATC tower during the curfew hours or do all the staff go home during this time?

Would this be the same case for all ATC towers when airports are closed?

Sydney has a curfew but that does not mean aircraft are not landing or taking off, as it's only some passenger aircraft that are subject to the curfew. All primary airports have 24 hour ATC while other airports have set hours.

Working overnight in the towers is usually a skeleton staff. In the old tower at Kyeema there used to be more action in the public car park below on some nights than on the runways, especially Saturdays when freight movements were minimal. The Aldis lamp made a good spotlight at times.....

 

[Flying Fox]

Thanks for your reply.

Sydney has a curfew but that does not mean aircraft are not landing or taking off, as it's only some passenger aircraft that are subject to the curfew.

I didn't realise this. Who or what aircraft are exempt from the curfew?

 

[anat0l]

I didn't realise this. Who or what aircraft are exempt from the curfew?

Well, to answer the question perhaps facetiously, those aircraft which have been specifically granted dispensation during curfew hours.

The curfew doesn't actually stop passenger aircraft from taking off or landing during the curfew; all it does is allow the Minister to prosecute and impose penalties on aircraft which do so, i.e. break curfew. It is such a legal threat which prevents aircraft from moving during the curfew; ATC doesn't stop aircraft from doing so, nor is it empowered in that sense. (And believe me, this topic has been argued ad nauseum in other threads).

There are also some aircraft which seem to have a specific exception to arrive in the last hour of the curfew in the morning. The curfew strictly goes from 2300 to 0600, but some aircraft do arrive between 0500 and 0600. I'm not sure what specific exceptions have been put in place to allow such aircraft to land without being subject to penalties under the relevant curfew Acts, although obviously the number of movements in that hour (or period) is strictly controlled.

 

[harvyk]

I've only flown on A380's from LAX-AU (so SYD / MEL) so I'm not sure if LAX thing, but at night when taxiing from the gate to the runway, each time we've had a car follow us on either side just in front of the wings. What is that cars purpose? And is LAX the only airport which does it?

 

[markis10]

Thanks for your reply.



I didn't realise this. Who or what aircraft are exempt from the curfew?

http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/av...rt_curfews_general_information_fact_sheet.pdf

Small propeller driven aircraft, ‘low noise’ jets that meet weight and noise requirements, and a limited number of freight aircraft
can operate at night. This allows movement of time-critical freight including mail and fresh food.

 

[Hvr]

I've only flown on A380's from LAX-AU (so SYD / MEL) so I'm not sure if LAX thing, but at night when taxiing from the gate to the runway, each time we've had a car follow us on either side just in front of the wings. What is that cars purpose? And is LAX the only airport which does it?

I was watching SkyCam this morning and noticed a car accompany QF11 from the runway to the gate upon arrival at LAX.

 

[jb747]

I've only flown on A380's from LAX-AU (so SYD / MEL) so I'm not sure if LAX thing, but at night when taxiing from the gate to the runway, each time we've had a car follow us on either side just in front of the wings. What is that cars purpose? And is LAX the only airport which does it?

I was watching SkyCam this morning and noticed a car accompany QF11 from the runway to the gate upon arrival at LAX.

The cars accompany all A380 movements at LAX. On the radio, they're called 'City Ops'.

LA has a huge amount of uncontrolled vehicle traffic around the field, and the behaviour of some of the drivers is suspect. Of course LA isn't the only place with poor drivers, but as far as I know it's the only airport that has taken them to task. Those cars you've seen are fitted with really heavy bull bars...if any car even looks like it's going to get near a 380, they'll ram it out of the way. And it isn't just a threat. I've never seen it, but a recent FO was saying he watched it happen.

 

[petercr]

More of the LOTFAP in action?

 

[jb747]

More of the LOTFAP in action?

I don't think so.

I've had vehicles turn in front of me, and if I hadn't stopped we would have met.... LA isn't the only place this happens, and it's a really good reason why we want people to keep their seat belts fastened, because flooring the brakes, even in the big bird gives very abrupt results.

Last time I had to stop for a vehicle was in Dubai. It was almost funny. We started the turn into the gate, and had gotten about 30º through the turn, when it became obvious that a vehicle was actually going to run in front of us. We were turning left, and he was on our left. The engineers and staff at the gate were waving at him madly, and he was coasting along looking at them...presumably trying to work out why they were so friendly. We stopped...and he eventually looked right and realised that he was about to be run over by a block of flats. And then he didn't know what to do..and stayed stopped in front of us until an Australian engineer walked out and had some words with him. I can guess a couple of them. They probably didn't speak the same language, but some things don't need translation.