Article: Latest Changes May Not Fix Qantas’ Reward Availability Problem

[Youfah Mizzum]

What I want is MEL-LHR or SYD-LHR in J/F return as a classic award.

Along with thousands and thousands of your fellow QFFers.

Just spitballing an idea...I wonder what the feasibility is for QF to offer a QF1/QF2 per month as fully points booked? I think CR availability is still reasonably common for whY but certainly it'd be easy to have a solid booked bird in PeY, J and F just from CR redemptions.

A per month flight could reduce demand on the other 29/30 days of the month.

Do I recall QF did this as a once off a few years back?

 

[Mr H]

Of the 5m Classic reward seats Qantas release, the latest press statement when the changes were announced, said that it included 130,000 international seats in premium cabins (Business / First). This is where the issue is really showing itself. Many (most?) frequent flyers want to use their points for a long haul international flight in a premium cabin. If we assume that the vast majority of flights are return, then 130,000 seats only equates to 65,000 journeys.Many people travel as a couple or family, so its not unreasonable to say that the average booking is for 2 people (some single travellers may offset families of 3,4,5 travellers). So there are only 32,500 available journeys. In reality this will be even less, as a flight SYD->JFK return has minimum 4 sectors and Qantas use married segment logic, such that there needs to be reward availability on each of those sectors. A trip from Sydney, Brisbane or Melbourne to London, Paris, Rome would similarly require more than 1 sector. So the available "journeys" is les than 32,500, but the permutations make it too hard to figure that out. Lets be conservative and say there are only 30,000 journeys for the average booker.

I believe that most QF members do not want to use their points for long haul flights in premium cabins. I believe most of them want to get a saving on their annual holiday where the family of five will travel in economy to the USA or Queensland - either through points plus pay or through getting one ticket "free". Or they will use their points for gift cards or toasters or whatever. The business class long haul tickets only really appeal to points whales and I doubt there are too many of those (although they may be disproportionately represented on this forum). And of those, many would be willing to take flights on partner airlines - Qantas is not the only airline.

I have generally been able to get to where I want to be by planning a year ahead and being creative with routes. I have no status and don't use "magic" tools to find seats. My perception is that it did get harder, but mainly because QR and BA have left the party. QF had never been a big part of muy redemptions, but they do still feature occasionally.

The last round of bleating about poor availability did not lead to a greater number of CRs. It led to the creation of C+. And I argued at the time that C+ would be the enemy of a plentiful supply of CR seats. I remember being told I was being alarmist. Has C+ led to the supply of CRs drying up? I don't know myself, but others are reporting that it has.

Further bleating - attempting to invoke government or ACCC intervention, or to restrict the marketing of award flights if they are in scarce supply - will just lead to the creation of a revenue-related redemption scheme. Ask NZ members how that works for them... Whether or not we acknowledge it, the QF scheme is a pretty damn good scheme right now - all the more so because earning points is not too onerous. I would hate to think that those who are unable/unwilling to make the current system work would spoil it for those of us who can.

 

[Youfah Mizzum]

Just guessing but I think the aim is to eventually be rid of classic rewards and the only option a slightly more enhanced classic plus.

Give QF a year or 3 and I think the pre-COVID glory days will be well and truly over, i.e no more CR just CR+ but not even called plus.
It'll just be the norm that CR redemptions will cost what CR+ is.
As an enticing bone to us dogs, maybe they do a vintage reward seat drop once or twice a year at old CR value or just a few days prior to departure to fill the distressed inventory/empty seats.

 

[Youfah Mizzum]

believe that most QF members do not want to use their points for long haul flights in premium cabins.

I daresay you're incorrect. I'm always looking for long haul in J/F.

I believe most of them want to get a saving on their annual holiday where the family of five will travel in economy to the USA or Queensland - either through points plus pay or through getting one ticket "free".

Yes, but not most. Certainly that is however a demographic that you righly say is looking to redeem points. Me included when I had younger kids. In fact I did a couple of OWA redemptions for 4 pax about 10 years apart. I think it was 128000 points per seat from recollection but that was when QF released tix 353 days out.

When I'm browsing the QF booking portal I can often see plenty of Y CR seats. It's the J/Y which are elusive.

 

[Mr H]

I daresay you're incorrect. I'm always looking for long haul in J/F.


Yes, but not most. Certainly that is however a demographic that you righly say is looking to redeem points. Me included when I had younger kids. In fact I did a couple of OWA redemptions for 4 pax about 10 years apart. I think it was 128000 points per seat from recollection but that was when QF released tix 353 days out.

When I'm browsing the QF booking portal I can often see plenty of Y CR seats. It's the J/Y which are elusive.

Has it ever occurred to you that you might not be typical of the majority of FF members?

 

[Lynda2475]

Despite the heading of this thread, i don't think the recent changes were ever meant to fix award availability problem for QFF members wanting premium redemptions.

In fact I doubt Qantas would even agree there is a problem, they are having no issues selling points and the loyalty division is more profitable than the the flights they run.

A guaranteed number of seats in each class on every QF flight released predictably would be awesome, but they will still be snapped up by elites who get earlier access.

 

[Youfah Mizzum]

Has it ever occurred to you that you might not be typical of the majority of FF members?

Yep. But the thing is from reading these forums it seems I'm fairly typical.
But you raise a good point...it's probably not the majority of FF users who frequent AFF!

 

[Mr H]

But you raise a good point...it's probably not the majority of FF users who frequent AFF!

Bingo!

 

[Lynda2475]

Bingo!

Yep there are millions of members but very few actively earning and redeeming serious points year on year.

Your average active AFF member is not representative of the average QFF member.

AFF members are actively pursuing premium awards, most QFF members have more tempered expectations (someone is redeeming those gift cards and toasters) or take years to redeem a whY.

 

[Mischief1]

In this opinion piece, I explain why I think Qantas has a Classic Reward availability problem, and why the latest changes - while they may have a positive effect overall on availability - probably won't be enough to fix it in the longer term.

Opinion: Latest Changes May Not Fix Qantas' Reward Availability Problem

Qantas Frequent Flyer has an availability problem. The recent program changes including Classic Reward price hikes, the introduction of Classic Plus and expanded partner airline rewards try to fix this. But they might not be enough.

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au

You can leave a comment or discuss this topic below.

The other issue not discussed in the impact on the behaviour of points accumulators looking to use points on European or North American routes. I suspect that many (like me) are changing focus to churning credit cards offering velocity points. It certainly appears its much easier to find economy reward seats on say Qatar to and from Europe than on Emirates. The lack of available classic rewards seats on Qantas and affiliates may be pushing passengers to the opposition. It gives me no pleasure to say this because I want to like QANTAS but it serves them right.

 

[Anjan]

I have finally made the decision to disengage from the QFF program it is just near impossible to redeem a premium seat X Australia. The entire FF program is big business now and flying with the said carrier (Loyalty mean nothing). In the process of switching credit cards I have saved on annual fees and found one I can get some points to the KF program which I think is probbly the most fair program in our region. I tried to give up my electricity provider but they said all their products come with points but there are saving on offer so switched now looking at heath funds. I will keep my Amex plat card as it lets me hedge but no longer going to actively pursue QF FF points. I am done! On a side note if the program is suppose to encourge you to fly with them and knowing redemption seats near impossible (And many people have noted here they would not if there was a 1% CC free) why would I fly Qantas when the like of SQ, JAL and other top tier airlines are at least a couple of 100 to a 1000 less in Business on most European legs, if a flat bed was all that mattered you could be saving a couple of thousand on second tier airlines...I am not there yet but certainly will fly the likes of SQ, TG , MH .

 

[kpro]

I believe that most QF members do not want to use their points for long haul flights in premium cabins. I believe most of them want to get a saving on their annual holiday where the family of five will travel in economy to the USA or Queensland

This exactly. Many 'common' people I know won't even look for J or F availability, and are just happy to redeem points on whatever. Whether it's a combination of limited flexibility, big family, not needing premium cabins or just wanting a bit of fulfillment on getting something for 'free' - they're happy to say they were able to use the points. Even if I educate some on oneworld awards and the value they bring, they just don't want to plan that far ahead to get a trip in J or F.

EG -

• Person redeems points for Y flight to US and then uses classic upgrade award for J.
• Person hears that points are being de-valued so proceeds to book flights in Y for a family of four.
• Person redeems points for pair of new headphones.
• Person uses 200k points on points+pay to save half of a Y fare from SYD to LAX.
• Person (with over 1m QFF points) redeems points for Y when J is available, on China Air because they don't perceive there to be much of a difference.

 

[DDirkin]

I've posted in a few other threads, but this change to push CR+ and reduce CR has really hit me. Me and the wife typically fly once or twice to the US each year. We have ALWAYS been able to get Business with CR. And once even got First class to Dallas which was a great.

Looking at the whole of November and December for 2025 I cannot see 1 CR Business ticket available. Only double the points and 50% more the $$$ taxes with their CR+ fares which do show up.

My loyalty has been unwavering for Qantas for the last 15 yrs. Quite literally. But now, similar to others above I am thinking of only using Qantas for domestic J, and finding another program/credit card opportunity to align to another carrier/strategy outside of Qantas.

I realise I've been entitled for many years being able to redeem these J CR flights. But this change seems far too stretched for no benefit to the customer.

Spent many years at Platinum One. Now avoid Qantas like the plague. Learnt a while ago that the chase for international reward seats in premium cabins with Qantas was a waste of my time and just pay for non-Qantas fares these days.

Gradually burned my points down from 1,000,000+ to around 50,000 with domestic J flights. Even those are getting harder to find and the service on offer is getting more and more miserable.

As Platinum I have always been able to find business seats to US/Europe for family of 4 on qantas by requesting seats released through Hobart if booking early (a year ahead) and reasonably flexible within 2-3 days and usually just either side of school holidays. I wasn’t able to do it as consistently when Gold. Platinum did make a difference and was worth having.

Now - no chance. All the same old methods and route tricks - and even requesting seats released, can’t even get 1 seat, let alone 4. I can see seats if I wanted to travel in the next week or so, but not feasible to plan a family holiday if you have to wait until the last minute.

 

[DDirkin]

I have finally made the decision to disengage from the QFF program it is just near impossible to redeem a premium seat X Australia. The entire FF program is big business now and flying with the said carrier (Loyalty mean nothing). In the process of switching credit cards I have saved on annual fees and found one I can get some points to the KF program which I think is probbly the most fair program in our region. I tried to give up my electricity provider but they said all their products come with points but there are saving on offer so switched now looking at heath funds. I will keep my Amex plat card as it lets me hedge but no longer going to actively pursue QF FF points. I am done! On a side note if the program is suppose to encourge you to fly with them and knowing redemption seats near impossible (And many people have noted here they would not if there was a 1% CC free) why would I fly Qantas when the like of SQ, JAL and other top tier airlines are at least a couple of 100 to a 1000 less in Business on most European legs, if a flat bed was all that mattered you could be saving a couple of thousand on second tier airlines...I am not there yet but certainly will fly the likes of SQ, TG , MH .

Same here, 2025 will be the first year in 15 years I disengage with the QFF program (apart from using remaining points - won’t be earning any more) and with that decision goes approx 4 seperate international fully paid J tickets per year over to a competitor. Don’t want to have to do it, but the value in staying with QFF just isn’t there any more.

 

[Tim K]

Just guessing but I think the aim is to eventually be rid of classic rewards and the only option a slightly more enhanced classic plus.

Correct. It’s now at the point that if we value a point at 1 cent it is cheaper to buy a CX J class to London for $7 k or others cheaper than CR + with points.

 

[rigram]

An example of Qantas Reward Availability problem:

A CR seat to JNB on 01NOV is available if originating in BKK.


If searching for direct SYD-JNB on 02NOV - only CR+ is visible. As Platinum I rang HBA and asked if they could break this "Married segment". They said no - however did offer to make a request for PE (and J & F) for 3 days either side of this date, response came back declined on all dates.

I'm at a loss why CR is available for obscure flight routes, however not on individual segments. There is no CR available for all of NOV to JNB when I searched.

I've generally had good fortune getting premium seats released with my status, however this has changed in the past few months - a P1 friend also is questioning the release process, as she too has had minimal success in getting seats released.

Searching ExpertFlyer shows the subclass to make a request is there - but talking with Qantas, they can't get it converted anymore....

Things seemed to have gone downhill when Olivia Wirth departed - do we blame current situation on Andrew Glance?

 

[Youfah Mizzum]

Things seemed to have gone downhill when Olivia Wirth departed - do we blame current situation on Andrew Glance?

I think the overall vibe towards QF improved when Vanessa Hudson took over. Call centres seemed to improve both in terms of wait times (particularly) and also the CSA being able to do what was needed.
But with the mucking about with QFF points i.e. the new CR+ and now the new changes coming later it seems Qantas are losing favour again.

I mentioned this some time ago in another thread on AFF, but a successful airline isn't just about profitability for shareholders. It's about the perception in the market. It's about customer service, it's about servicing and safety, it's about points schemes having a degree of attraction to accrue and spend with a perceived value to make that spend attractive (like the aforementioned desirability of reward seats in premium cabins), it's about being proud of it being a national airline.
If all of those "it's abouts" come at the expense of the balance sheet then so be it. How wonderful would it be for QF to have a few million $ less profit one year because they've pumped the money into those areas which boost the overall reputation of the airline as a whole.
It would actually turn into an improved bottom line because people actually want to fly QF whether it be via revenue fares or CR redemptions.

 

[Mattg]

On a related note, I found it interesting to read about Emirates' president defending the airline's high carrier charges and the fact that he's refused to make Premium Economy redemptions/upgrades available at all:

Emirates President: "I'm the one that's stopping" points bookings in Premium Economy

Sir Tim Clark shares what needs to happen before Emirates would unlock bookings with points in Emirates Premium Economy.

www.pointhacks.com.au

I understand that Emirates wants to make money, and if they can fill their PE cabin exclusively with full fare-paying passengers, then good for them!

If Emirates wants to take the position of "we can sell our seats for cash so won't release any for redemptions, and if we do there will be a huge co-payment", that's their right to do so.

I also have the right not to bother engaging with the Skywards program because the airline has made it unappealing. And I don't.

 

[SYD]

On a related note, I found it interesting to read about Emirates' president defending the airline's high carrier charges and the fact that he's refused to make Premium Economy redemptions/upgrades available at all:

Emirates President: "I'm the one that's stopping" points bookings in Premium Economy

Sir Tim Clark shares what needs to happen before Emirates would unlock bookings with points in Emirates Premium Economy.

www.pointhacks.com.au

I understand that Emirates wants to make money, and if they can fill their PE cabin exclusively with full fare-paying passengers, then good for them!

If Emirates wants to take the position of "we can sell our seats for cash so won't release any for redemptions, and if we do there will be a huge co-payment", that's their right to do so.

I also have the right not to bother engaging with the Skywards program because the airline has made it unappealing. And I don't.

Haven’t US airlines effectively being doing this for years? ie unless you’re double plated titanium status, you can only secure a longhaul J reward seat 1 or 2 wks out (if they haven’t sold).

And yes, peeps complain about QF but the contempt EK show their own and partner FFs with their outrageous carrier surcharges is beyond belief. But I guess, you can at least find seats if you’re prepared to pay a motza in points and $$$s….

 

[foften]

We save up our points to try to get business class travel to Europe, I think anything else is a waste. We have both the Qantas and Velocity points programs. Last year we got Qatar Qsuite tickets from Melbourne to Paris with Velocity points across. Coming back we did Emirates economy Vienna to Dubai, then Emirates Business/First from Dubai to Sydney and then using Virgin credit card travel money for economy Sydney to Melbourne. We also spent 15 glorious hours in the First Class lounge in Dubai.

It took a bit of detective work and flexibility to secure the seats but it was well worth the effort. I do think the next phase will make this much more difficult. Apart from actual availability of seats it is hard to get two reward seats in business or first on the same flight.

Once you retire it isn’t possible to churn cards even if you have a decent amount in Super and assets. We are bronze so we had to get the points through the grind of third party groups, buying wine, etc. it takes a few years to build up.