Are the days of Points collecting over?

[Human]

you pay $150 for PE? $195 for me.

Yeah, it used to be that members of certain Unions and Professional Associations (Accountants, Doctors etc and, in my case, teachers) could get the Platinum card for $1200 and the Platinum Edge for $150. I'm not sure whether that's still the case, which is another reason for me to not churn the cards -- I think I'd lose the discounted annual fees (as well as the Reserve $400 travel credit) if I were to take them out today.

 

[andye]

For me as a traveller, definitely worth it. I'm in a slightly different boat in that I'm only paying a $1200 annual fee and my Platinum Reserve still gives me a $400 travel credit on top of the $450 credit that comes with the Patinum charge card. And I use and value the Accor Plus membership, the Amazon Prime membership, the Australian subscription, and the 2x $200 dining credits. It adds up to several hundred dollars at least more than what I'm paying for the annual fee.

And where the surcharges are imposed (which is by no means everywhere), it still means that I'm paying about 1c per point or thereaabouts, which is way less than what the points would cost if I bought them (I don't need to convert them to KrisFlyer or Emirates points so I always convert them to the programs which have the more favourable 2:1 conversion cost).

On top of that, my family each have supp cards which get them into Virgin lounges and they'd probably murder me if I took that away!


I have a Platinum Edge for supermarkets and servos which gives me 3 points per dollar. On top of that for department stores and restaurants I generally buy gift cards from supermarkets (so I get 3 points per dollar for them too), and I wait for either 10% discount offers or bonus point promotions. And there are no surcharges at supermarkets or petrol stations.

The Platinum Edge costs me $150/year and for that I receive a $200 travel credit.

So really for me my Amex cards are no-brainers, and fantastic value-for-money. They're the only cards that I don't churn.

Wow. You seem to be my Amex soulmate (though my Edge fee is higher)
I do have a couple of Mastercards which I use when the Amex surcharge differential is big

 

[Happy Dude]

For me as a traveller, definitely worth it. I'm in a slightly different boat in that I'm only paying a $1200 annual fee and my Platinum Reserve still gives me a $400 travel credit on top of the $450 credit that comes with the Patinum charge card. And I use and value the Accor Plus membership, the Amazon Prime membership, the Australian subscription, and the 2x $200 dining credits. It adds up to several hundred dollars at least more than what I'm paying for the annual fee.

And where the surcharges are imposed (which is by no means everywhere), it still means that I'm paying about 1c per point or thereaabouts, which is way less than what the points would cost if I bought them (I don't need to convert them to KrisFlyer or Emirates points so I always convert them to the programs which have the more favourable 2:1 conversion cost).

On top of that, my family each have supp cards which get them into Virgin lounges and they'd probably murder me if I took that away!


I have a Platinum Edge for supermarkets and servos which gives me 3 points per dollar. On top of that for department stores and restaurants I generally buy gift cards from supermarkets (so I get 3 points per dollar for them too), and I wait for either 10% discount offers or bonus point promotions. And there are no surcharges at supermarkets or petrol stations.

The Platinum Edge costs me $150/year and for that I receive a $200 travel credit.

So really for me my Amex cards are no-brainers, and fantastic value-for-money. They're the only cards that I don't churn.

But this a thread about the value of points, not the value in credit cards and their benefits. Just about all Amexs offer more benefits than the annual fee. However, Amex points have been hugely devalued in terms of earn and burn. Without a business to earn points, and with 18 months between churns (now risky), it takes a long time to accumulate enough points for the common main objective of this game - a long haul J seat.

 

[Human]

But this a thread about the value of points, not the value in credit cards and their benefits.

Yes, and my point was that AmEx is still a valuable and value-for-money source of points. As credit card sign-up bonuses become both less lucrative and also more difficult to get approval for, cards such as AmEx become more and more important as a vital source of points. My point stands that the one cent per point that AmEx gives you will be of huge assistance in accumulating the points needed for "a long haul J seat".

Any intelligent points accumulation strategy in this day and age simply cannot rely only on sign-up bonuses. One has to diversify: Flybuys, Everyday Rewards, points accumulation through CC spending and not just CC sign-up bonuses, energy companies (a more lucrative source of points than many people realise), and (gasp!) possibly even buying points.

My assertion is that if you don't have an AmEx as part of that diversification strategy, you're potentially missing out on a valuable (and relatively cheap) source of points.

 

[levelnine]

My point stands that the one cent per point that AmEx gives you will be of huge assistance in accumulating the points needed for "a long haul J seat".

If you're earning 1.5pt per dollar and paying 1c/pt with your Amex, you need to spend $240,000 on your card to fly 2 people to Europe return in J. And that costs you $2,400. And then contend with Qatar award availability, which is good but not brilliant. And then add on taxes. And then hope there isn't a devaluation between when you start earning and want to redeem.

That's what the OP is getting at. With sign-up bonuses getting smaller and fewer, aspirational redemptions (long haul J) are getting harder and harder unless you have massive manufactured or business spend.

 

[Human]

aspirational redemptions (long haul J) are getting harder and harder unless you have massive manufactured or business spend

... or unless you're more nimble and creative in the ways you accumulate points. I'm getting 20,000 points offers from Flybuys every month or two -- that's 100,000ish FF points per year just from doing the grocery shopping that I'd normally do. Add that to the maybe 30,000 points per year from using electricity, and tens of thousands of points more per year from putting every cent you possibly can on your credit card, and at least 100,000 points per year from CC sign-up bonuses (two sign-up bonuses per year is still very much doable) ... you get my point.

... but in case you don't get my point, let me spell it out for you: accumulating the points you need is well and truly possible if you're creative and nimble with how you go about it.

The old-fashioned lazy way of just signing up for 5 credit cards per year with sign-up bonuses probably can't be done any more. Nowadays, you actually have to engage your brain.

 

[levelnine]

... but in case you don't get my point, let me spell it out for you: accumulating the points you need is well and truly possible if you're creative and nimble with how you go about it.

You're literally repeating what I said on page 1 of this thread.

What I'm saying is that you pointing to the fact that you earn 1.5pt/dollar and pay 1c/pt is proving the OP's point, not refuting it.

 

[Human]

You're literally repeating what I said on page 1 of this thread.

What I'm saying is that you pointing to the fact that you earn 1.5pt/dollar and pay 1c/pt is proving the OP's point, not refuting it.

Yes ... sorry ... my post was probably more narky than it needed to be!

 

[andye]

You're literally repeating what I said on page 1 of this thread.

What I'm saying is that you pointing to the fact that you earn 1.5pt/dollar and pay 1c/pt is proving the OP's point, not refuting it.

I'm certainly not paying 1c/pt. I think <10% (was <5% before the supermarket discounted Giftcards dried up and I switched to using Yakpay for ATO) of my transactions involve a surcharge.

Platinum.earns 2.5 MR/$=1.25 QF/VA/CX/QR/AS or 0.83 SQ or 0.7 AA.

Edge earns 3 MR/$=1.5 QF/VA... etc

I agree that you need to have a decent spend to make a big dent in a pair of J seats.

For me, both Plat & Edge earn their annual fee from the benefits and the points are the bonus

The flexibility of Amex transfers should not be underestimated as a powerful tool to get award seats via multiple programmes

 

[levelnine]

One possible way to think about the subject is that nothing beats sign-up bonuses in terms of bang for your buck (points per dollar spent & the cost of each point), effort (no battling with cashiers at WW/Coles) & time (few people can generate, say, 100,000 points in a shorter space of time).

The diminishment of sign-up bonuses thus hurts a huge amount. It is the golden goose of the frequent flyer game and it is slowly being killed.

That doesn't mean the game is dead, but it is more expensive, more difficult & slower to continue to earn at the same rate as before.

And all this is happening while airlines are devaluing their points.

 

[jkbaus]

Love to be more “creative and nimble”
Wish I knew how.

I used to pay strata fees for brother and ex husband but they both died in last few years.
Single retired woman. Can’t get new credit cards.
Get flybuys but don’t spend a lot to feed one person or clean small home.
Woolworths always require even larger spends so not much use.
Live in inner city and don’t drive my car much.
Change low usage electricity every year for best offer.

 

[drron]

Love to be more “creative and nimble”
Wish I knew how.

I used to pay strata fees for brother and ex husband but they both died in last few years.
Single retired woman. Can’t get new credit cards.
Get flybuys but don’t spend a lot to feed one person or clean small home.
Woolworths always require even larger spends so not much use.
Live in inner city and don’t drive my car much.
Change low usage electricity every year for best offer.

Yes retired but with an SMSF. Knocked back twice for a Coles MC. No way I can get a CC sign up bonus. But I am still able to get the vast majority of my long haul J Flights as awards.
A good source of new points is buying them with significant discount. You have to do your maths but I get between 10 and 50% discount on paid J flights.
For the next 17 long haul J flights I have booked only one is paid. That was because SQ had a Sale and BKK to BNE was actually cheaper than an award with my cost for points.

 

[Human]

Love to be more “creative and nimble”
Wish I knew how.

I used to pay strata fees for brother and ex husband but they both died in last few years.
Single retired woman. Can’t get new credit cards.
Get flybuys but don’t spend a lot to feed one person or clean small home.
Woolworths always require even larger spends so not much use.
Live in inner city and don’t drive my car much.
Change low usage electricity every year for best offer.

The sad reality is that the greater your income, the greater the ability to accumulate points (and, ironically, the less you need to!). For a long time I've had the very rough belief that if you can earn 300,000 points per $100,000 of income per year, you're doing well. Some people will be able to earn more than that, but as a rough guide it's not too bad.

So if your income is, say, $50,000, you're doing well if you can accumulate 150,000 points in a year. If it's closer to $30,000 then you should expect fewer than 100,000 points/year. Of course if there's only one of you, you also need fewer points!

In your situation my advice about being "creative and nimble" would include, if you can, alternating between periods of 2-3 months shopping at Woolies, and 2-3 months shopping at Coles. The Flybuys offers will require less and less spending if they think they've lost you as a customer. Woolies' Everyday Rewards works in much the same way, though to a lesser extent (in my experience). If you don't have the Flybuys and Everyday rewards apps on your phone, you should get them because they give you access to their best offers.

Apart from that, even the crumbs add up. Doordash will give you 2000 Velocity points if you order with them before 12 August. You don't drive your car much but getting tyres and services at Mycar will earn Flybuys points.

Buying points might also make sense in your situation, if you look out for good discount offers. Qatar Airways occasionally has something which I think is called a "Boost Your Avios" promo where you can buy relatively small numbers of Avios while still having access to large discounts. Qatar is good too for the relatively low number of points you need for Business redemptions, especially if you fly at off-peak times which, if you're retired, is easy.

 

[clifford]

So if your income is, say, $50,000, you're doing well if you can accumulate 150,000 points in a year. If it's closer to $30,000 then you should expect fewer than 100,000 points/year. Of course if there's only one of you, you also need fewer points!

I'm not sure what planet you're living on, but I don't think many people with those sorts of incomes would find much of this relevant. Oh, unless they're asset rich and cash poor, of course.