AFF Review: Qantas A330 Economy (SYD-SIN)

Three and a half stars seems... generous...

I did SIN-MEL on an A333 a few months ago, and had similar feelings about the grottiness of the cabin. The touchpoints on the fabric on my seat - originally red - were black, the recline on my seat didn't work properly and the magazine holder on the seat next to me was broken causing it to flop down. This on a plane that was refurbished only about six years ago.

Couple that with the fact they didn't get the IFE operating until we were up in the air (although it seems I was lucky to even get it!) and it was a pretty disappointing experience. At least the food and crew were decent.
 
I don't think the first class lounge justifies such a subpar international flight. I would be outraged and I would be writing a complaint to Qantas. This airline is being forgiven too many faults by so many Australians due to sentiment. They've simply become too complacent. Should competition be allowed equal access to Australia and its international and domestic routes Qantas would be gone.
 
MELso said:
Three and a half stars seems... generous...

I did SIN-MEL on an A333 a few months ago, and had similar feelings about the grottiness of the cabin. The touchpoints on the fabric on my seat - originally red - were black, the recline on my seat didn't work properly and the magazine holder on the seat next to me was broken causing it to flop down. This on a plane that was refurbished only about six years ago.

Couple that with the fact they didn't get the IFE operating until we were up in the air (although it seems I was lucky to even get it!) and it was a pretty disappointing experience. At least the food and crew were decent.
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Earlier this month I did MEL-SIN on A332 as well with the ipad based IFE, which didn't actually start operating until 90 minutes into the flight. Some other noteworthy points:
- Food was reasonable
- Service took a very long time to complete
- Some staff were great others were quite brusk almost rude when people requested things
- Didn't see any water runs through the cabin
- By the end of the flight the toilets were, um well, quite disgusting and had run out of toilet paper. Not up the standards I'm used to on JQ and SQ.
- My seat was actually a bit dirty with some food crusts on it.

Overall, I know people love Qantas and hate on Jetstar, but this was my third MEL-SIN this year on JQF, the first two on JQ this one on QF. We used BA avios for the flight, so it was good value. But if paying cash, I really don't see the value of the premium QF charge over JQ on this sector (it's usually about $200-300 vs Jetstar Plus bundle that gives points/luggage/meal). Yes, JQ often delays and cancels flights and that's a risk. But my original QF flight was cancelled, and this was the flight I was put on the next day , 19 hrs later, so that's not a given that JQ is bad and QF is great with respect to cancellations.
 
AFF Editor said:
Qantas A330 Economy Review (Sydney-Singapore) is an article written by the AFF editorial team:


You can leave a comment or discuss this topic below.
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An excellent article, as always, @AFF Editor - enjoyed it. A very comprehensive article.

Surprising bit from the article - the vego option running out within 3 rows of Y - that's very surprising. If anything, I'd thought the vego options would be left overs, as most try and get the meat option. Also, on the topic of vego meals - I really wish QF would vary their vego offerings. I have been doing quite a few (by my standards, at least) International Y on QF this year and I have been consistently getting the same vego meal on the flights. I usually do the QF81/82, QF35/36 or QF67/68 and the vego meals offered on these routes are very, very identical and the same, in most cases. I really wish they'd offer something else for the vegos on board. It is always the cauliflower (curry or Tikka with potato & peas) or Rajma curry or Mixed Veg curry with potato & peas or poorly made biriyani/fried rice (especially on the QF68, ex-BLR, could you believe it!). How about throwing in some paneer cheese or varying the veggies a bit.

And the Italian/garlic/herb-infused bread - that does not go well with of the meals they offer on these flights. I'd think a sourdough (or something similar, a Vienna or Pana Di Casa, perhaps) would suit better. The thing with the Italian/Garlic/Herb-infused bread is that it's doughy, too crumbly (when it goes cold) and the only heat, I believe, the bread receives is when the bread is briefly warmed in the oven before service or the brief exposure to heat when the bread is ever so gently placed on top of the meal foil - neither of which, IMO, is sufficient to make the bread edible.

Re: CSM/CSC greeting - was greeted at the door and at the seat once again - was offered drinks before everyone in the cabin and proactive top ups of G&T without asking. So good experience on that front.

Seat clean - I noticed this too, last time I was on board the A330-200s. Although to be fair, I also observed it on the A380 last week (ex-SIN). There is definitely a deep clean required.

Re : IFE - Having the iPad's is actually a good thing - My recent QF67 had the old style IFE console - bad picture quality, touch screen was too patchy and had to literally punch the screen to get things working.

At the end of the day, the flights do take us from A to B and I'm grateful for that. However, there are some things that can be improved, greatly!

Long may we all fly :D
 
Only just went to Singapore 2 months ago. My bird wasn't switched out thankfully, still got the A380, but the food leaves a lot to be desired imo. I remember the exact same panini as in the trip report lol. IFE wasn't lacklustre. I was expecting the have the view on the outside camera's. nope. Does QF not do this anymore? The movie offerings were pathetic also. Was meant to be coming back on A380 in J, but wasn't to be. Re-routed via Melbourne on B787. and the food offerings in J were a disgrace imo. If i'm using ff points, I guess i have to take what ever metal is available, but if I'm paying, i'll be looking at a better carrier, like emirates or singapore airlines. The food i got on SQ economy for 1:30hr flight was better imo than QF J long haul.
 
The most key items of an airline in my view are
- Getting you there in once piece - obvious really
- On time arrival - customers have plans they have made and rely on
- Providing the product that have been paid for - value for money, comparison and feeling of fairness

In this case 3.5* I think is way too generous for a flight that was meant to be an A380, and should have arrived as scheduled. Especially for connecting passengers, that this route implies most would be on, is particularly poor form.

What is most distasteful in the change of aircraft is the inevitable downgrades that follow, you just know that QF will not be interested at all in owning the issue but rely on the fact just they consider just to get you from A-B is all that is required. Then to add a 3 hour delay on top by not having a flight ready aircraft (clean and engineering checked) goes to show the contempt they have for schedules and their customers own plans and respect how customers made their commercial choice to choose QF in the first place.

Unfortunately this is the QF way now. Its fleet resilience is now so thin its happening very frequently. Especially on its international routes - and what is most surprising this happened at the main Sydney hub! Good luck for any help if you are stranded elsewhere.

Personally I actively avoid QF internationally for just this specific reason. Their ability to respond to downtime (which does happen) is not factored in to their schedules. They just run too lean. Add that with inflexible and merciless compensation policies which don't appreciate should things go wrong (which now is the norm for QF), makes QF too risky an option and hard work.

This has the ongoing impact to you personally if you rely on QF to be a premium product, expect to get what you pay for, and being able to keep to your own personal plans. QF are now a JQ airline at QF prices. Now Id rather choose others over QF any day, especially if the price is the same.

One final comment for flight reviewers who travel in Economy, and then slum it in the first class lounge. You are not getting the full experience of Economy that most travelers would be getting. I know it was noted as not being factored in the score, but if you are going to be a genuine economy traveler, then try to do a review without the status, the personal touch, the lounge, which are very personal in nature. My feeling the score here would be a 1 or 2 as their rating- because those travelers would be more annoyed with the lack of an airline simply being able to meet the basic product requirements.
 
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Those 332s really need a refurb in Y - not a competitive product anymore.
 
Sounds like the only positive thing about the whole flight was the comfortable 2-4-2 on the A330, which is standard for all full-service carriers (I really like this aircraft for this reason). So anything Qantas-specific was poor and clearly not 3.5 stars.
 
In addition to the poor resilience of QFi to any sort of disruption, I think one main issue is that a lot of Qantas aircraft they fly to Asia and New Zealand just feel so dated compared to their competitors. Trans-tasman AirNZ has a320/1neos which feel much more modern than Qantas' 737s, and to most Asian destinations competitors are flying relatively new 787/A350 family aircraft, or recently refurbished 777s, whereas Qantas is flying mostly A330s.

Now, there's nothing inherently wrong with A330s (e.g. the Finnair A330s that Qantas will operate soon are pretty fresh looking inside), but Qantas really hasn't kept up with the maintenance of these aircraft interiors, both in terms of cleaning and fixing what's broken.

Ultimately I feel like Qantas simply doesn't have enough capacity now to pull aircraft off for refurbishment, and I feel like the major reason for this is just poor planning on their part, or a desire against large fleet upgrade expenditure.

Even if COVID hadn't happened, whilst Qantas would probably have more capacity and reliability right now (due to the 747-400s), those aircraft would still have very dated interiors operating. Maybe it'd have allowed them to run their A330s less hard and refurbish them by now though.

Either way, I think it's poor planning on their part that got them to this stage (and now a desire for running as many routes as they can instead of scaling back to maintain reliability), and I don't think this will improve until FY27 when the 787-10s start arriving.

Same (re. poor planning) can be said about the current state of the SYD Domestic & International Business Lounges (COVID would've been a great time to refurbish...)
 
encryptededdy said:
In addition to the poor resilience of QFi to any sort of disruption, I think one main issue is that a lot of Qantas aircraft they fly to Asia and New Zealand just feel so dated compared to their competitors. Trans-tasman AirNZ has a320/1neos which feel much more modern than Qantas' 737s, and to most Asian destinations competitors are flying relatively new 787/A350 family aircraft, or recently refurbished 777s, whereas Qantas is flying mostly A330s.

Now, there's nothing inherently wrong with A330s (e.g. the Finnair A330s that Qantas will operate soon are pretty fresh looking inside), but Qantas really hasn't kept up with the maintenance of these aircraft interiors, both in terms of cleaning and fixing what's broken.

Ultimately I feel like Qantas simply doesn't have enough capacity now to pull aircraft off for refurbishment, and I feel like the major reason for this is just poor planning on their part, or a desire against large fleet upgrade expenditure.

Even if COVID hadn't happened, whilst Qantas would probably have more capacity and reliability right now (due to the 747-400s), those aircraft would still have very dated interiors operating. Maybe it'd have allowed them to run their A330s less hard and refurbish them by now though.

Either way, I think it's poor planning on their part that got them to this stage (and now a desire for running as many routes as they can instead of scaling back to maintain reliability), and I don't think this will improve until FY27 when the 787-10s start arriving.

Same (re. poor planning) can be said about the current state of the SYD Domestic & International Business Lounges (COVID would've been a great time to refurbish...)
Click to expand...
The reviewer noted the aircraft had been sitting in Sydney for many hours. It wouldn't take much to have someone vacuum seats and wipe down surfaces during such down time - ready for the next flight. QFs A380 toilets were encrusted in dust that had absorbed who knows what a decade ago. This is just very basic hygiene. They don't need to go down the path of dedicated cleaning staff on board (actually when Sunrise comes along they probably should) but just ignoring general filth on a daily basis goes all the way to the top of fleet presentation, and hence the CEO.
 
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Mark213 said:
The most key items of an airline in my view are
- Getting you there in once piece - obvious really
- On time arrival - customers have plans they have made and rely on
- Providing the product that have been paid for - value for money, comparison and feeling of fairness

In this case 3.5* I think is way too generous for a flight that was meant to be an A380, and should have arrived as scheduled. Especially for connecting passengers, that this route implies most would be on, is particularly poor form.

What is most distasteful in the change of aircraft is the inevitable downgrades that follow, you just know that QF will not be interested at all in owning the issue but rely on the fact just they consider just to get you from A-B is all that is required. Then to add a 3 hour delay on top by not having a flight ready aircraft (clean and engineering checked) goes to show the contempt they have for schedules and their customers own plans and respect how customers made their commercial choice to choose QF in the first place.

Unfortunately this is the QF way now. Its fleet resilience is now so thin its happening very frequently. Especially on its international routes - and what is most surprising this happened at the main Sydney hub! Good luck for any help if you are stranded elsewhere.

Personally I actively avoid QF internationally for just this specific reason. Their ability to respond to downtime (which does happen) is not factored in to their schedules. They just run too lean. Add that with inflexible and merciless compensation policies which don't appreciate should things go wrong (which now is the norm for QF), makes QF too risky an option and hard work.

This has the ongoing impact to you personally if you rely on QF to be a premium product, expect to get what you pay for, and being able to keep to your own personal plans. QF are now a JQ airline at QF prices. Now Id rather choose others over QF any day, especially if the price is the same.

One final comment for flight reviewers who travel in Economy, and then slum it in the first class lounge. You are not getting the full experience of Economy that most travelers would be getting. I know it was noted as not being factored in the score, but if you are going to be a genuine economy traveler, then try to do a review without the status, the personal touch, the lounge, which are very personal in nature. My feeling the score here would be a 1 or 2 as their rating- because those travelers would be more annoyed with the lack of an airline simply being able to meet the basic product requirements.
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Agree with your comments Mark 213.
It’s definitely not the full economy experience using the First Class lounge and if my recent QF International experience is anything to go by I will not be flying QF any time soon.
 
To me, the rating should be 1.5 stars:

- Plane was downgraded to A330 from A380;
- Plane was very late;
- The seats are dirty;
- No seat back IFE, iPad version is just not the same;
- choice of vegetarian food ran out at third row of Y;

All the lounge access should not be included in this trip, or included in the rating at all.

QF just cannot compare to SQ Y where the flights were on time, clean cabin, proper seat back IFE, and decent Y food. They even made a Singapore Sling when I asked. I posted the food here, for both long haul and SIN-SYD (SQ231):

Singapore Airlines International Economy Meals

Given the "inspiration" of the new Qantas International Economy meal thread, I thought I would start SQ version as well. So I flew SQ37 LAX-SIN and SQ231 SIN-SYD in early January 2023 in Y. You may think I am insane to take this route in Y but it was the only way to come back to Sydney from USA...
www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au

If QF Y is 3.5 stars then SQ Y should be 10 stars.
 
Downsizing planes for "operational" (i.e. financial) reasons, downgrading multiple J passengers - QF sounding more and more like Jetstar.
 
kamchatsky said:
If QF Y is 3.5 stars then SQ Y should be 10 stars.
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See the OP just made a simple error in the trip report. Was meant to be out of 10 stars not 5 🤣

DaveinCanberra said:
Downsizing planes for "operational" (i.e. financial) reasons, downgrading multiple J passengers - QF sounding more and more like Jetstar.
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I'm sure QF would have more than compensated all the passengers 🤣😂😅

And the difference between QF and JQ is JQ would have just cancelled the flight completely. You'd maybe get rescheduled in the next few days :)
 
Daver6 said:
Say what?! Had they even loaded any at all? I can't believe they could possibly run out of a meal option by row 3 of Y.
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I also found this surprising and unusual.

I can confirm that at least some vegetarian meals were loaded because I originally received one. I was sitting in the second row of Y. However, immediately after I received my meal, a vegetarian passenger sitting in the row behind me was told they had no more left. The flight attendant even checked with some colleagues and they also had none. I am not a vegetarian so voluntarily offered my meal to the other passenger and received chicken instead.

(I didn't think it was worth going into that level of detail in the review, but that's what happened for anyone interested.)
 
2infinity said:
And the difference between QF and JQ is JQ would have just cancelled the flight completely. You'd maybe get rescheduled in the next few days :)
Click to expand...

You've got that the wrong way around. :rolleyes:

Last September my JQ MEL-SIN flight was delayed 10 hrs, this month QF just cancelled the flight completely and I travelled the next day.
 

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