Advice on paid fare - Aus to Montreal/Quebec City

[geoffb78]

Hi all

My family and I are planning a trip to the US and Canada for Christmas 2024. Had been considering using points to redeem business class tickets but failing that, I have found an airfare via Expert Flyer that seems too good to be true so thought I'd turn to the community for advice.

The fare is sold by Japan Airlines and seems to allow travel from BNE-YUL/YQB via Japan using JL/AA. It seems to allow five stopovers in each direction (1 in Japan and 3 in the US) for $100 each, as well as five transfers in each direction. The published fare is around $900 (with a fuel surcharge of about $800). The fare basis is SNN0OOCE (similar fare bases are LNN0OOCE and VNN0OOCE).

I'm curious about whether I'm reading the rules/fare information accurately in thinking this would allow an itinerary like: BNE-xNRT/HND-NYC-BNA-ORD-YUL/YQB-DEN-xNRT/HND-CTS-xNRT/HND-BNE for about $2000. I understand that availability will be limited by the relevant seat classes but keen to check the alignment of my itinerary with the fare conditions.

Appreciate any insights or advice you can provide.

Thanks

Geoff.

 

[encryptededdy]

So I'm reading the fare info and one thing I've noted is BNE-TYO is not really possible, you would have to go via. HKG or SIN, where BNE-HKG and BNE-SIN are JL codeshares on CX and QF metal respectively. I don't think you can go via. SYD to take JL52 since only QF1419~1562 are bookable as domestic flights within Australia.

Also, the published fare is ~$900 AUD one way, the return option would be SNN0NOCE which is US$842 return (although I assume you already arrived at this since your total of $2000 seems to be using the return price).

Back to the routing up to Japan though, I don't think going via. HKG is even possible since the fare rules say

THE FARE COMPONENT MUST INCLUDE TRAVEL BETWEEN
AUSTRALIA AND HKG ON
ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING
ANY JL FLIGHT OPERATED BY CX
ON DIRECT FLIGHTS.

But I don't think there's any BNE-HKG flights with a JL code

Also a quick look via. SIN shows no real availability in "S" around December next year.

In the end though, I'm not an expert at reading these fare rules so take my claims with a grain of salt.

 

[geoffb78]

So I'm reading the fare info and one thing I've noted is BNE-TYO is not really possible, you would have to go via. HKG or SIN, where BNE-HKG and BNE-SIN are JL codeshares on CX and QF metal respectively. I don't think you can go via. SYD to take JL52 since only QF1419~1562 are bookable as domestic flights within Australia.

Also, the published fare is ~$900 AUD one way, the return option would be SNN0NOCE which is US$842 return (although I assume you already arrived at this since your total of $2000 seems to be using the return price).

Back to the routing up to Japan though, I don't think going via. HKG is even possible since the fare rules say

But I don't think there's any BNE-HKG flights with a JL code

Also a quick look via. SIN shows no real availability in "S" around December next year.

In the end though, I'm not an expert at reading these fare rules so take my claims with a grain of salt.

Thanks Teddy. Your advice is helpful.

The 'flight application' rules look odd (perhaps only to a non travel agent!) but seem to require travel between (a) Australia and Japan, (b) Australia and Hong Kong AND (c) Australia and Singapore (i.e. the journey is defined as having 'and' rather than 'or' requirements), which cannot be right. The rules on stopovers and transfers imply that the routing must be either (a), or (b), or (c) above, rather than all of them. But my expertise is nil, so I appreciate your take on things.

The rules I'm reading also allow any QF-operated domestic connection (including specifically QF1419-1562). Not sure why these are called out - maybe they are operated by another carrier for QF...?

The return fare bases seem to commence with O, Q, S, V, L and M, at escalating prices ($960 for O seat bucket to $1982 for M bucket) - all with surcharges of $402 each way if (I think) travel is via JL between Australia and Japan. If we went via HKG or SIN, would these be avoided?

If you have the chance, do the O, Q, V, L or M buckets look more promising in December (say 6-9 December departure from Australia)?

Thanks again

 

[encryptededdy]

The 'flight application' rules look odd (perhaps only to a non travel agent!) but seem to require travel between (a) Australia and Japan, (b) Australia and Hong Kong AND (c) Australia and Singapore (i.e. the journey is defined through 'and' rather than 'or' requirements), which cannot be right. The rules on stopovers and transfers imply that the routing must be either (a), or (b), or (c) above, rather than all of them. But my expertise is nil, so I appreciate your take on things.

When it doesn't say "AND", "OR" is implied as I understand it. So...

THE FARE COMPONENT MUST NOT BE ON
ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING
ANY QF FLIGHT OPERATED BY JQ
QF FLIGHTS 5080 THROUGH 5089
[....]
AND
IF THE FARE COMPONENT INCLUDES TRAVEL WITHIN AREA 1
THEN THAT TRAVEL MUST BE ON
ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING
ANY JL FLIGHT
ANY AA FLIGHT.
<--- there is an implied "OR" here, since a new section begins without "AND" --->
THE FARE COMPONENT MUST NOT BE ON
ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING
ANY QF FLIGHT OPERATED BY JQ
QF FLIGHTS 5080 THROUGH 5089
[...]

The rules I'm reading also allow any QF-operated domestic connection (including specifically QF1419-1562). Not sure why these are called out - maybe they are operated by another carrier for QF...?

You're correct. I misread. I thought it was ONLY "QF FLIGHTS 1419 THROUGH 1562", but now I see it's any QF flight in addition to those. Yeah, those are called out because they're operated by e.g. Cobham

The return fare bases seem to commence with O, Q, S, V, L and M, at escalating prices ($960 for O seat bucket to $1982 for M bucket) - all with surcharges of $402 each way if (I think) travel is via JL between Australia and Japan. If we went via HKG or SIN, would these be avoided?

My read is no, since it says one or more JL flights between Australia and Japan (and going via HKG/SIN would just be two JL flights, since you have to book JL coded flights anyway)

If you have the chance, do the O, Q, V, L or M buckets look more promising in December (say 6-9 December departure from Australia)?

It sounds like you have access to ExpertFlyer so you can check this yourself, but here's what I found

via HKG - not possible since there are no JL coded flights between BNE and HKG (I suppose there may be from other Australian ports, but I haven't checked)

via SIN - JL36 & 38 have 0 availability on O, Q, V, L, M (the two daily flights from SIN to HND) between 4/12 and 10/12, so is not possible either

via SYD - JL51 (SYD-HND) has M9 L9 V9 Q9 O9 on the 4th, 5th, and 6th (Wed~Fri) and M9 L9 V9 (no Q or O) on 7th~10th

I assume you'd need to find a Qantas BNE-SYD to connect onto that flight with the appropriate fare classes available (hopefully not too hard).

 

[Seat0B]

The rules I'm reading also allow any QF-operated domestic connection (including specifically QF1419-1562). Not sure why these are called out - maybe they are operated by another carrier for QF...?

I believe these flight numbers are operated by QantasLink, and they are probably just trying to make it clear that QantasLink flights will be regarded as fully fledged QF flights for this ticket.