A380 Galley Refrigeration Fault

[Mickey Mouse]

While Elbo continues to sit in Joyce's lap, there's no way Australia will ever introduce anything like EU261 or anything that could possibly reduce QF's margins.

 

[jrfsp]

I wouldn’t be surprised if one of factors at play is the gutting of cabin engineering that happened during covid
Now left with a situation of no resources to fix broken seats, fridges, maintain sufficient spare parts inventory

 

[stm1sydney]

I have think I have had 3 or 4 A380 flights since May that hasn’t had a second meal.

But this is the thing. Qantas customers keep coming back for more of the same, so why should Qantas spend any money or expend any effort to remedy?

 

[RooFlyer]

I cannot comment on SQ given the fact that they aren't a traveller friendly airline (just ask valued PPS member who got screwed when they dropped lifetime status, the fact that miles expire based on time since accrual, etc.).

Oh, good grief. If you cannot comment on them ... why comment on them?

But this is the thing. Qantas customers keep coming back for more of the same, so why should Qantas spend any money or expend any effort to remedy?

Exactly, I have no sympathy whatsoever for the rusted-on brigade who keep going back to expensive fares and inferior service. Actually, also casual flyers either who just blindly book without looking at alternatives.

From comments above, this issue appears to precede covid. Would it not have been an issue they could addressed in the post storage maintenance? From JB's comment, the system seems to have greater function than just keeping meals and grog cold.

It is an integrated system that not only chills food, but which is also involved in providing cooling to electronics throughout the aircraft. I haven't got a manual available at the moment, but from memory there are two coolant loops that service the entire aircraft.

 

[BAM1748]

As it appears to be ongoing I’m wondering if they are waiting on a part/parts. In my rail world we presently waiting 30 weeks or longer for air con units, some more obscure inventory can be 300 days plus.

I’ve got in plenty of taxis over the years with failed air con and no owner is going to take it off the road because of that.

Perhaps this particular aircraft is coming up for a major service and they’re trying to hang on until then for a permanent fix. There are many reasons why repairs get delayed. Going back to the rail arena we now use bar fridges for the crew meals as they are throw away when failed and plug a new one in, previously they were custom built in and a failure meant a visit to the workshop which no one was prepared to put their name to failed train service because of a fridge.

Have been on QF 380s a couple of times in the last couple of months without issue and all food served.

 

[Pushka]

As it appears to be ongoing I’m wondering if they are waiting on a part/parts. In my rail world we presently waiting 30 weeks or longer for air con units, some more obscure inventory can be 300 days plus.

I’ve got in plenty of taxis over the years with failed air con and no owner is going to take it off the road because of that.

Perhaps this particular aircraft is coming up for a major service and they’re trying to hang on until then for a permanent fix. There are many reasons why repairs get delayed. Going back to the rail arena we now use bar fridges for the crew meals as they are throw away when failed and plug a new one in, previously they were custom built in and a failure meant a visit to the workshop which no one was prepared to put their name to failed train service because of a fridge.

Have been on QF 380s a couple of times in the last couple of months without issue and all food served.

I think there'd be a lot less angst if they came clean. But right now they are treating people like mushrooms, but social media these days means the true situation will out itself, just like it is here and on FB. I'm so tempted to change our Sin flight, the rest of our trip is on EK thank goodness. At least it's not an A380 I supposed. But EK flights are. If it wasn't for the execrable call centre I'd be on the phone now.

 

[jb747]

Judging by the lack of evidence for EK SQ or QR flights operating with reduced long haul food services I would suggest its a case that these airlines usually take their aircraft out of service and fix them or rectify the issue in fleet downtime. Otherwise, if the problem were systematic on other airlines, then there would be frequent reports of it happening online. There isn't so far, so it stands to reason that its not common or not a frequent issue on those airlines.

Assumption is a powerful thing.

 

[justinbrett]

Judging by the lack of evidence for EK SQ or QR flights operating with reduced long haul food services I would suggest its a case that these airlines usually take their aircraft out of service and fix them or rectify the issue in fleet downtime. Otherwise, if the problem were systematic on other airlines, then there would be frequent reports of it happening online. There isn't so far, so it stands to reason that its not common or not a frequent issue on those airlines.

Yes its legal and fine to fly with some inoperative galley equipment, but it speaks to the airlines priorities about whether relatively trivial but annoying faults are tolerated or not. Actually its trivial to the staff, accountants and management of QF but maybe not so trivial for paying customers?

All of those airlines operate A380s on shorter routes (in addition to long haul) where they can much more easily cope without refrigeration.

 

[RooFlyer]

Do they have to operate without refrigeration, though?

 

[jb747]

Do they have to operate without refrigeration, though?

On a very large proportion of the sectors, you would never know. Same as you don’t know what other MELs are applied at any given time. So, they could be having exactly the same problems, but simply limiting the sectors the aircraft are used on. Actually many MELs force that sort of thing anyway, so it wouldn’t be unusual.

 

[eastwest101]

All of those airlines operate A380s on shorter routes (in addition to long haul) where they can much more easily cope without refrigeration.

Yes although the fact that MH had to do the Liebherr retrofit might indicate that their A380 fleet is/was also doing long legs, where a second service is necessary (i.e. KUL-LHR), and as you say, some of/a lot of the EK SQ and EY A380 services are shorter in length so the lack of a full second meal is not as noticeable.

If its part of a system that also cools equipment bays and absorbs other thermal loads then its a bad design, sure, and also makes me wonder what other stuff the management of Qantas put up with? If its acceptable to not have a completely working cooing system then maybe not so important to check those tyres or look into difficult to find minor hydraulic issues? Drinking water and potable water is another known issue with the A380s and these QF birds are doing longer legs than other A380, maybe the IFE system has bugs and overheats sometimes, what a hassle to take an aircraft out of service to investigate a minor issue like that, lets just wait until the D check or overnight in LAX and let them deal with it then......

Perhaps the management of QF should be shown a globe of the planet and they might realize that Australia is located at the end of the world with long logistics chains and less centralized economies of scale, and all their international fleet is going to be operating long-haul routinely? Hardly a surprise to anyone except for QF management perhaps. Maybe that might be the moment that they realize that they have to adjust their mentality about priorities of operating their airline? As far as the international airline is concerned, they aren't running Ryanair, they are operating in a world that has large distances and long flights.

 

[justinbrett]

Yes although the fact that MH had to do the Liebherr retrofit might indicate that their A380 fleet is/was also doing long legs, where a second service is necessary (i.e. KUL-LHR), and as you say, some of/a lot of the EK SQ and EY A380 services are shorter in length so the lack of a full second meal is not as noticeable.

If its part of a system that also cools equipment bays and absorbs other thermal loads then its a bad design, sure, and also makes me wonder what other stuff the management of Qantas put up with? If its acceptable to not have a completely working cooing system then maybe not so important to check those tyres or look into difficult to find minor hydraulic issues? Drinking water and potable water is another known issue with the A380s and these QF birds are doing longer legs than other A380, maybe the IFE system has bugs and overheats sometimes, what a hassle to take an aircraft out of service to investigate a minor issue like that, lets just wait until the D check or overnight in LAX and let them deal with it then......

Perhaps the management of QF should be shown a globe of the planet and they might realize that Australia is located at the end of the world with long logistics chains and less centralized economies of scale, and all their international fleet is going to be operating long-haul routinely? Hardly a surprise to anyone except for QF management perhaps. Maybe that might be the moment that they realize that they have to adjust their mentality about priorities of operating their airline? As far as the international airline is concerned, they aren't running Ryanair, they are operating in a world that has large distances and long flights.

I don't think QF is the only airline that regrets buying A380s.

 

[Mickey Mouse]

On a very large proportion of the sectors, you would never know. Same as you don’t know what other MELs are applied at any given time. So, they could be having exactly the same problems, but simply limiting the sectors the aircraft are used on. Actually many MELs force that sort of thing anyway, so it wouldn’t be unusual.

I'm not sure of the fleet numbers, but I wouldn't think a huge proportion of the EK A380s are 38Ls ... can't really swap a 38M in their place to keep sweeping the problem under the carpet! (I suppose if QF were running their show, they'd simply throw in an extra "free" stop as an enhancement...)

 

[Himeno]

Do we know which aircraft have this problem (assuming it hasn't been fixed yet)?

I have QF2 (LHR-SIN) tomorrow (Aug 7).
VH-OQB arrived in LHR this morning. I assume that will operate QF2 tonight.
VH-OQD is operating QF1 to SIN at the moment. I assume that will operate QF2 tomorrow.

 

[dairyfloss]

Do we know which aircraft have this problem (assuming it hasn't been fixed yet)?

I have QF2 (LHR-SIN) tomorrow (Aug 7).
VH-OQB arrived in LHR this morning. I assume that will operate QF2 tonight.
VH-OQD is operating QF1 to SIN at the moment. I assume that will operate QF2 tomorrow.

I saw on another group that parts had finally arrived and fixes made.. hopefully true, but nothing official. I’m on a QF 388 in less than 2 weeks and also hopeful it’s no longer ‘a thing’.

 

[Peasant]

I cannot comment on SQ given the fact that they aren't a traveller friendly airline

Well this is one of the stranger comments I’ve seen on this website…

On a very large proportion of the sectors, you would never know. Same as you don’t know what other MELs are applied at any given time. So, they could be having exactly the same problems, but simply limiting the sectors the aircraft are used on. Actually many MELs force that sort of thing anyway, so it wouldn’t be unusual.

So, I happened to be speaking to someone at SQ this morning, so I asked the question. Yes, SQ has similar problems with the refrigeration on their A380s and they receive frequent complaints from their cabin crew about their reliability.

That said, they were very surprised to hear QF’s issues have been going on for months. Almost incredulous in fact.

While SQ faces frequent issues, they have the spare parts and engineering resources to be able to resolve things fairly quickly. I suppose this is the benefit of SQ continuing to conduct its maintenance in-house and at home base - if there’s an issue, the aircraft is towed across the tarmac to SIAEC.

They utilise all active 380s across the entire network (the longest are the 3x daily LHR flights) and have not had to specifically deploy certain aircraft on regional routes because of refrigeration issues.

On a side note, SQ has been fielding frequent visits from the investment bankers, eager for them to divest of their engineering business. The answer is always the same: no, they are not interested, as they view having these resources in-house as a key competitive advantage that allows them to protect the reliability and integrity of their network.

Pity another airline closer to home didn’t take that long-term view…

 

[milehighclub]

While SQ faces frequent issues, they have the spare parts and engineering resources to be able to resolve things fairly quickly

The problem isn't the engineers, they are ready to fix it and there is the facility in LAX and Australia to do it, all in house.

The problem is the parts and from what I am told, there simply are none. In fact, one speculation is that the part is no longer made.

 

[RooFlyer]

The problem isn't the engineers, they are ready to fix it and there is the facility in LAX and Australia to do it, all in house.

The problem is the parts and from what I am told, there simply are none. In fact, one speculation is that the part is no longer made.

I guess if you have your own engineers and engineering facilities you can keep tabs on what’s available, what’s not what's going to be very difficult to source, and then act accordingly. If you are reliant on third-party, then you’re at their mercy as to their preparedness and their ability to look forward. And presumably, if they also service others you’re in competition even within that facility.

And honestly can’t see Airbus saying sorry, folks, we don’t make that A380 bit any more, your refrigeration is just going to have to stay broken. Wonder what Emirates would say to that?

 

[ozziflyer]

Still occurring - QF2 24/8/22 has received the same notice.

EDIT - looks like VH-OQB is the planned plane - so consistent with prior posts