700,000 points. Where should we go?

[LouLou]

Hi there
We are a 2 * adults, 2 * 4 year olds, 1 * 19 month old Family.
We have 700,000 Qantas FF points + 100,000 Emirates FF points.
We would like a 4-5 week family holiday. Destination completely open, but we're favouring EU.

Which destinations do you think will be a good value use of our points? Inspiration please!

Do we use them for full tickets or to upgrade?

We're at the most embryonic planning stage right now and would just love some ideas please on the best way to use our points for a family holiday. We used to travel a lot but have been in baby mode for a few years and are ready to travel again, albeit with a young family now.

Thank you kindly
Lou

 

[Mattg]

What a nice dilemma to have!

Firstly, what class are you looking to travel in? If economy, your points will stretch quite a long way. You could go anywhere in Europe in economy for 128,000 points each return. But even better value is the oneworld award. You could easily book 5x round-the-world awards in economy for exactly 700K Qantas points (140K each)! Even less if your 19-month old doesn't need their own ticket. This is a great redemption as you get up to 5 stopovers and 35,000 miles to play with. So you could travel (for example) Sydney-Hong Kong-Rome-New York-Los Angeles-Sydney for only 12,000 points more each. See here for more on that: http://www.australianfrequentflyer....ogram/oneworld-award-140k-280k-420k-8228.html

Obviously travelling in the pointy end would be a lot nicer, and a good use of points. The trouble with that is that it will be much harder to find 5 seats on the same flight (in fact, almost impossible). You also won't have enough points for 5x trips to Europe. But you could all travel to somewhere in Asia, provided there was availability.

Upgrades are also a good use of points but are never guaranteed, and I daresay you would have a lot of trouble with 5 of you travelling together. Probably best to use points outright in your case.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

As Mattg alludes to - upgrades can be very difficult. You don't mention your status with Qantas, but unless you are platinum or platinum 1, you should expect to travel only in the class booked.

Note for award travel, Qantas imposes heavy fuel surcharges which can really add up. If you would like to fly business class, perhaps consider flying from Singapore. You can pick up Emirates out of there to Europe. From Australia you can pick up a cheap jetstar or Scoot ticket to get you to singapore (in economy).

 

[Renato1]

Regardless of where you go to in Europe, I suggest that you book your accomodation five or six months in advance. Else any savings you make from using the points can quickly evaporate in higher accomodation costs.
Regards,
Renato

 

[LouLou]

Thank you to everyone. We are happy to fly economy and are leaning towards flying in and out of Vienna, where we have family.

We think we will book a seat for the infant, as holding an almost two year old long haul does not appeal!

Equally, while I would have once jumped at a RTW ticket, we want to try to limit flying with the three kids. Maybe one day! *Pauses to dream of HK / London / Paris / New York*

Is it better value to book through Qantas, Emirates or One World? I'm out of touch, but my husband thinks we can potentially convert points between the two?? Thanks again

Lou

 

[Mattg]

Thank you to everyone. We are happy to fly economy and are leaning towards flying in and out of Vienna, where we have family.

We think we will book a seat for the infant, as holding an almost two year old long haul does not appeal!

Equally, while I would have once jumped at a RTW ticket, we want to try to limit flying with the three kids. Maybe one day! *Pauses to dream of HK / London / Paris / New York*

Is it better value to book through Qantas, Emirates or One World? I'm out of touch, but my husband thinks we can potentially convert points between the two?? Thanks again

Lou

Yeah, those oneworld awards are great but I realise that they aren't for everyone!

Emirates miles can be used to fly on Emirates partners, just as Qantas points can be used to fly on QF partners. But you can't transfer the points between programs. The main partners of interest to you using Emirates miles will be Emirates themselves and Qantas. With Qantas points you can also fly on Emirates, but you also have the benefit of the network of other oneworld airlines.

So as a general answer, I would say use the Qantas points. You may end up using them to fly Emirates, which is fine. But I also think you should try to use those Emirates miles (in addition to the Qantas points) as they usually expire after around 3 years. So you may lose them if you don't use them. Your Qantas points won't expire as long as your account is kept active.

 

[LouLou]

Thank you MattG. I will especially look into the expiry of the Emirates points.

I'll start playing around with the Qantas website now.

Unfortunately our days off being Platinum FF are long gone. I seem to recall that there were better Award seats available the higher your status. Any tips for booking Award flights for Silver status?

Thanks again

 

[drewbles]

Be sure to do a cost analysis if you're going to fly in Economy. Often the fuel surcharges and taxes that Qantas impose (as Mattg mentioned) add up significantly, and may end up being a poor use of points. You may do better to pay sale fares for everyone than burn through 128k points per person and up to $500-800 in taxes per person. The only real value in terms of use in Economy are the Oneworld fares he also mentioned.

Do the math and do whatever works for you of course

 

[LouLou]

Thank you Drewbles. Has anyone calculated at what point the ratio of fuel surcharges and taxes to sale fare cost makes it not worthwhile to use points?? It's unlikely in the next few years we will have enough points to fly us all Business Class somewhere. I'm just not sure what else to use these points for?

 

[LouLou]

Sorry, another questions please - Do we pay less in fuel charges etc if we book a One World Flight / Emirates flight? Thanks

 

[drewbles]

Thank you Drewbles. Has anyone calculated at what point the ratio of fuel surcharges and taxes to sale fare cost makes it not worthwhile to use points?? It's unlikely in the next few years we will have enough points to fly us all Business Class somewhere. I'm just not sure what else to use these points for?

Sorry, another questions please - Do we pay less in fuel charges etc if we book a One World Flight / Emirates flight? Thanks

It's all based on what you consider to be good value. Having a large-ish family makes it difficult to use for premium cabins (as an entire family at least). You could possibly try for 2 premium/business seats on one day and 3 the next and travel separately, but it's not ideal and 3 seats in a premium cabin is still pretty close to impossible.

You pay fuel surcharges and taxes based on destinations. It's always best to avoid London (LHR/LGW, any airport in the UK) as they charge an APD which is vast (Air Passenger Duty), and varies on class booked. Economy is £71 for flights to Australia. It's only payable on departure though. In a premium cabin, the £71 jumps to £142. It adds up quickly for 5. Possibly look at AMS instead.

The real value of the Oneworld fares is that you can effectively fly around the world, so you're adding a lot more to the option list, but this obviously doesn't suit your purpose.

Depending on what time of the year you fly, you can get adult fares for around $1500-1800 on sale. Unfortunately if your child is over 23 months, you won't have the infant fare option (which is no seat, only lap, but as you mention you'd prefer not to do that).

Be a little flexible and look at non-QF/EK options if you're paying, and you may even get a better deal going via China or Japan rather than HKG/SIN/DXB.

The best use of points IMHO is the 280k Oneworld fare which is in Business rather than Economy (and 420k for First, although with a lack of airlines having first, it limits your routes or demotes you back to business which makes the fare poorer value). Based on a Oneworld Explorer 4 continent (DONE4) fare being around the $10-12k mark, your points work out to be around $1100 in taxes, and you get around 4c per point in value (if you take it as a $10k fare). If you end up paying say $600 per person in taxes on a $1600 air fare, you're getting $1k worth of value for 140,000 points which is only $0.007 per point value.

It's all very subjective and I (and others here) may waste a lot of time trying to extract maximum value from points

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Thank you Drewbles. Has anyone calculated at what point the ratio of fuel surcharges and taxes to sale fare cost makes it not worthwhile to use points?? It's unlikely in the next few years we will have enough points to fly us all Business Class somewhere. I'm just not sure what else to use these points for?

Sorry, another questions please - Do we pay less in fuel charges etc if we book a One World Flight / Emirates flight? Thanks

Fuel surcharges will vary depending on the airline you choose to fly. Qantas and British Airways flights may attract higher surcharges than other airlines, and probably not worth the inconvenience of having to fly via Heathrow. Emirates (only one stop) is not that cheap either... looking at a sample date next year, SYD-VIE on Emirates is coming in something around the $750 range for additional fees and charges.

You can also fly on Qatar airways via DOH. Again, around the same for additional fees and charges.

Sale fares to Europe can be had in the $1500+ range depending on airline, so it depends if the ~700,000 points is worthwhile to save you around $3500 for the total family. Not insignificant in terms of saving, but those 700,000 points would also get two of you return to Europe business class if you ever wanted to leave the kids behind and have a holiday one year just the two of you!

 

[Freq Flier 2013]

700,000 Qantas points is approx $4,137 wolworths gift vouchers so always need to do your maths (16,920 points = $100 gift card) and compare to the flight value you might get.

 

[louella]

I don't know about Emirates but I recently booked business class fares to/from Europe with Qantas FF points. We intended to fly into CDG, Eurostar to UK and return to Australia from Heathrow. I discovered to my horror that taxes and fuel charges are more than three times more expensive to fly out of Heathrow than CDG. It was a lot cheaper to return to Paris and return to Brisbane from there. I can no longer remember exactly what the taxes and fuel charges were to fly from Heathrow to Australia, but they were more than double the AUD228 airfare LHR to CDG (incl taxes) and E108.38 Qantas taxes/fuel charges to fly out of CDG with Cathay. Why, I am not sure. I am not advocating that you change your plans to avoid Heathrow, but if it suits your itinerary it does appear to warrant some investigation.

 

[louella]

I don't know about Emirates but I recently booked business class fares to/from Europe with Qantas FF points. We intended to fly into CDG, Eurostar to UK and return to Australia from Heathrow. I discovered to my horror that taxes and fuel charges are more than three times more expensive to fly out of Heathrow than CDG. It was a lot cheaper to return to Paris and return to Brisbane from there. I can no longer remember exactly what the taxes and fuel charges were to fly from Heathrow to Australia, but they were more than double the AUD228 airfare LHR to CDG (incl taxes) and E108.38 Qantas taxes/fuel charges to fly out of CDG with Cathay. Why, I am not sure. I am not advocating that you change your plans to avoid Heathrow, but if it suits your itinerary it does appear to warrant some investigation.

 

[travelislife]

I don't know about Emirates but I recently booked business class fares to/from Europe with Qantas FF points. We intended to fly into CDG, Eurostar to UK and return to Australia from Heathrow. I discovered to my horror that taxes and fuel charges are more than three times more expensive to fly out of Heathrow than CDG. It was a lot cheaper to return to Paris and return to Brisbane from there. I can no longer remember exactly what the taxes and fuel charges were to fly from Heathrow to Australia, but they were more than double the AUD228 airfare LHR to CDG (incl taxes) and E108.38 Qantas taxes/fuel charges to fly out of CDG with Cathay. Why, I am not sure. I am not advocating that you change your plans to avoid Heathrow, but if it suits your itinerary it does appear to warrant some investigation.

Thats the British government not the airlines. It is any airport from the UK which has really high APD dependent on the distance you are flying this will be expensive for Australia.

 

[travelislife]

If you are going to aim for economy Cathay is probably one of the better airlines to look at as their charges are generally lower.

Emirates used to be good but when they partnered with Qantas they increased their charges.

 

[LouLou]

Thank you again
I think I will be making a spread sheet tonight to compare the value of the points with gift vouchers we can buy. I had no idea that it might be better value to buy WOW gift vouchers!
We have narrowed out plans down to 5 weeks in France / Spain / Portugal with a week in Vienna with family. So we are considering our options of flying into Vienna and out of either Lisbon / Madrid / Paris.
Unfortunately it's taken me two years to talk my husband into this and we would like to go in April / May, so we've left it short to get really cheap flight specials I think.
Thanks again for your help. And other tips would be most appreciated!

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Thank you again
I think I will be making a spread sheet tonight to compare the value of the points with gift vouchers we can buy. I had no idea that it might be better value to buy WOW gift vouchers!
We have narrowed out plans down to 5 weeks in France / Spain / Portugal with a week in Vienna with family. So we are considering our options of flying into Vienna and out of either Lisbon / Madrid / Paris.
Unfortunately it's taken me two years to talk my husband into this and we would like to go in April / May, so we've left it short to get really cheap flight specials I think.
Thanks again for your help. And other tips would be most appreciated!

Looking at Qatar Airways - they'll fly you with one stop into Vienna, and one stop out of Madrid, the fare for 2 adults, 2 children and one infant is $6079 (note that's 4 seats and one lap child). The price rises to $7200 if you want one seat each for the children and infant (total 5 seats).

A revenue fare gives you full flexibility to choose the flights you want, and no problems getting 5 seats on one plane.

If you go down the FF route, the sample date I looked at can give you Qatar Airways to Vienna and Emirates back for 139,000 points per seat, and ~$700 in tax, fees and charges... so 695,000 points and $3500 in fees (looks like children may have slightly less govt taxes). Looking at sample dates 22 April to 29 May, there are five award seats available on all flights.

It is slightly cheaper if you can take emirates each way - 640000 points and ~$3625 for fees and charges

 

[LouLou]

Looking at Qatar Airways - they'll fly you with one stop into Vienna, and one stop out of Madrid, the fare for 2 adults, 2 children and one infant is $6079 (note that's 4 seats and one lap child). The price rises to $7200 if you want one seat each for the children and infant (total 5 seats).

A revenue fare gives you full flexibility to choose the flights you want, and no problems getting 5 seats on one plane.

If you go down the FF route, the sample date I looked at can give you Qatar Airways to Vienna and Emirates back for 139,000 points per seat, and ~$700 in tax, fees and charges... so 695,000 points and $3500 in fees (looks like children may have slightly less govt taxes). Looking at sample dates 22 April to 29 May, there are five award seats available on all flights.

It is slightly cheaper if you can take emirates each way - 640000 points and ~$3625 for fees and charges

Thank you MEL_Traveller. I'm super impressed with the prices you have quoted on Qatar, I assume they are a Sydney exit? Unfortunately we exit from Brisbane, so at least two stops on Qatar and as far as this novice can tell, I think around $9000 for 4 seats and 1 lap child. But you're right on your comparison, using the points saves around $3500, which is less than the equivalent value in WOW shopping vouchers, so we may be better off using the points for something else. But compared with a $9000 ticket cost, it does start to become useful to use the points. Excellent food for thought, thank you so much.

Thanks again