Qantas Project Sunrise goes ahead, 12 new A350-1000s ordered

[LondonAussie]

Re pricing. Noted this line in the ET article:

“Hudson has also clarified pricing, saying fares on the non-stop Sunrise flights would be equivalent to Perth-London and Sydney-Auckland-New York, which themselves carry a roughly 20% premium over the Qantas alternatives.”

That’s not always true. When I’ve booked I’ve from LHR-MEL at least, going via PER was not more expensive.

 

[markis10]

Read a comment (I think on airliners) that at least one of the slots is a similar 0630 time..

So I could imagine Sunrise being a 1800 SYD departure arriving 0630 LHR.
Then you swap the PER and SYD aircraft, with QF10 retaining its 1150 departure to PER

The current leased slots cater for an early morning arrival and a mid afternoon arrival if they take them back.

 

[dajop]

Sunrise flights will be used by corporates, of which most are in Sydney

Not so much corporates per se, but big money. Sydney has the finance industry.

For example SIN-NYC works because it connects 2 finance hubs, ZRH is not a big city but LX carries F on all their long haul craft and SQ serves it with F as well (smallest city they serve with F). Why? Finance. LAX probably different I guess due to the film industry and celeb factor.

 

[downgraded]

you are not going to see $1,500 Y fares

I wouldn't bet on that. Maybe not to start with, but QF9 used to be pretty much the cheapest way to fly MEL-LHR at a little over $1300 at its cheapest (return).

 

[justinbrett]

An A350 maybe, but QF are also ordering 3 class configs. We'll see.

Are they? Haven't seen that.

 

[AuSammy]

Re pricing. Noted this line in the ET article:

“Hudson has also clarified pricing, saying fares on the non-stop Sunrise flights would be equivalent to Perth-London and Sydney-Auckland-New York, which themselves carry a roughly 20% premium over the Qantas alternatives.”

If that statement reads as I think it does, then PS flights won't be any more expensive than what QF already charges on average for PER-LHR direct.

 

[dajop]

I wouldn't bet on that. Maybe not to start with, but QF9 used to be pretty much the cheapest way to fly MEL-LHR at a little over $1300 at its cheapest (return).

MEL-LHR on QF9 was competing with everyone else as a one stop service, Did/do they offer similar fares ex-PER on the non-stop?

If they need to fill the Y cabin on SYD-LHR and can't quite the demand into/out of SYD, my bet would be protecting the fares on the non-stop but discounting from NZ perhaps. Or at a pinch MEL/BNE.

 

[TeaKozy]

Are they? Haven't seen that.

As per Qantas to retire A380 superjumbo, replace with A350
"Those 1000LRs will be a “higher-density” three-class variant of the Project Sunrise A350s, with business class, premium economy and economy cabins but not first class."

The second tranche of A350's replacing the A380's do appear (for now) to retain the four-class config, however QF aren't flying the A380 to Melbourne anymore.

 

[jrfsp]

MEL-LHR on QF9 was competing with everyone else as a one stop service, Did/do they offer similar fares ex-PER on the non-stop?

If they need to fill the Y cabin on SYD-LHR and can't quite the demand into/out of SYD, my bet would be protecting the fares on the non-stop but discounting from NZ perhaps. Or at a pinch MEL/BNE.

Exactly Ex PER the direct is generally more expensive than via SIN or DXB (codeshare) to LHR or CDG etc

 

[esquire]

There's a deluded portion of the world that thinks corporates don't travel Y. It is standard policy for many large corporates.

Indeed - there are plenty of companies that fly their staff Y - regardless of what their policies are. And for those of us in the consulting game - time is money so even a 4-6 hour time saving could pay for that seat.

 

[justinbrett]

As per Qantas to retire A380 superjumbo, replace with A350
"Those 1000LRs will be a “higher-density” three-class variant of the Project Sunrise A350s, with business class, premium economy and economy cabins but not first class."

The second tranche of A350's replacing the A380's do appear (for now) to retain the four-class config, however QF aren't flying the A380 to Melbourne anymore.

I think that's just saying the initial (non PS) order replaces the A330s as they are higher priority for replacement, and understandably those won't have F, as the A330s don't.

I don't think that says the extra A350s for A380 replacement which will come slightly later won't have F. I think it's a safe bet they will.

 

[Peasant]

While we all appreciate airlines chase yield per available seat, it beggars belief that Qantas has decided that what will soon be Australia's largest (populated) city, Melbourne, is to again miss out.

Sadly I think it’s reflective of the economic malaise in Victoria at the moment. Whether or not that will turn around is anyone’s guess, but it’s a very sickly environment right now.

We can’t blame QF for committing its aircraft to where it can get the best return on investment.

 

[SYD]

As per Qantas to retire A380 superjumbo, replace with A350
"Those 1000LRs will be a “higher-density” three-class variant of the Project Sunrise A350s, with business class, premium economy and economy cabins but not first class."

The second tranche of A350's replacing the A380's do appear (for now) to retain the four-class config, however QF aren't flying the A380 to Melbourne anymore.

Yes, the article was confusing because the A330 replacements (A350s / B787s) will be three class (as an aside, that’s a step up from the QF A330s with no PE, albeit losing 2x whY seats port/stbd).

But the article also clearly states “Qantas Group CEO Vanessa Hudson confirmed the Airbus A350 “will ultimately (be) replacing the A380s” – and those A350s would “be the flagship aircraft that’ll have the new first class, business class, premium economy and economy.”

With 12 aircraft, I’d be surprised if at least one MEL route doesn’t see one of those - in addition to one route operated by a PS plane (even if it is DFW) in due course.

 

[TeaKozy]

But the article also clearly states “Qantas Group CEO Vanessa Hudson confirmed the Airbus A350 “will ultimately (be) replacing the A380s” – and those A350s would “be the flagship aircraft that’ll have the new first class, business class, premium economy and economy.”

With 12 aircraft, I’d be surprised if at least one MEL route doesn’t see one of those - in addition to one route operated by a PS plane (even if it is DFW) in due course.

Yep - well aware the second tranche will have F, but given that order isn't likely to land for 6 or so more years (think they mentioned 2032?), it's a long time between drinks. Happy to be proven wrong, but it's really hard to induce premium demand when you aren't flying it.

Weirdly, I actually prefer Y on the 330 to the 787 given the 2-4-2 config (my employer rarely if ever sits us at the pointy end intra-Asia).

 

[mviy]

There's a deluded portion of the world that thinks corporates don't travel Y. It is standard policy for many large corporates.

Some other countries even require their top politicians to fly Y. Would not be surprised if this happens in Australia at some point.

The confirmed upgrades may have been introduced to give a pathway for corporate travelers forced to travel Y by company policy to self-fund cash upgrades to help make Sunrise flights profitable.

 

[mviy]

If QF is going to continue to operate as a Sydney airline the government should stop protecting it by allowing more competition from international carriers and demand repayment of the COVID relief. QANTAS was bailed out by all Australians not just those in Sydney.

 

[moa999]

. I think it's a safe bet they will.

Think it really depends on global demand for F.. plenty of airlines have dumped it entirely with pax finding the J with door sufficient.

 

[747sardine]

There's a deluded portion of the world that thinks corporates don't travel Y. It is standard policy for many large corporates.

Don't I know it. Hence the user name

 

[jrfsp]

Sadly I think it’s reflective of the economic malaise in Victoria at the moment. Whether or not that will turn around is anyone’s guess, but it’s a very sickly environment right now.

We can’t blame QF for committing its aircraft to where it can get the best return on investment.

Perth and Sydney also have a much higher proportion of British born residents than MEL (or BNE) does so that doesn’t help.

 

[justinbrett]

Think it really depends on global demand for F.. plenty of airlines have dumped it entirely with pax finding the J with door sufficient.

It was looking that way but seems to have reversed in recent years.

LAX-SYD is a celeb heavy route, as long as people are paying (and it seems they are), I can't see QF getting rid of it. A350 will have fewer F seats, similar to BA's twins, so I think it's almost guaranteed going forward. The fact the US airlines have or will dump them only strengthen the case for QF to keep it.