Is QF Uncompetitive ?

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clazman

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Doing some planning / snooping around for some fares for a flight between Perth & New York, and for the sake of this discussion used the dates 1/6/15 to 8/6/15

Emirates - $8,523
CX - $9,077
QF - $10,784

I want to fly QF but why would you spend the extra $2.2K for loyalty?
 
I can only assume some people don't shop around. Or refuse to fly other airlines for reasons like safety*


*I am in no way saying that EK or CX are unsafe. Just that people may perceive them to be less safe than QF
 
Clazman, I assume these seats are business class (unless you are pricing 3-5 economy fares).

I did some dummy bookings for Y class SYD-SIN rtn in mid-December 2015: QF are $1,200-$1,600; CX (via HKG) $950-$1,150; & BA $900-$1,200.

So, depending when you want fly, QF can be very uncompetitive.
 
Often referred to as the Aussie Tax. Then again, the cost structures of the airlines mentioned are not all the same, so its not always a level playing field when it comes to straight competition.
 
I would suspect in the case of E K. It's all about the ability to compete. I'm no expert but I suspect they get their fuel a wee bit cheaper. As for CX. What is the average wage across the whole company compared to QF? ( and even EK for that matter). If an airline has a "lower" cost base I'm confident they can price their product accordingly. We in Australia love to repeat the mantra "Buy Australian". But frankly we don't want to pay for manufactured goods that have Australian wages and conditions attached.
I am just as guilty as the next man BTW , so no living in glass houses over here.
I fly QF as exclusively as possible, my reasons are
1. It's our National carrier
2. I already have Life time QP courtesy of an old Australian Airlines LT flight Deck card
3. Decent partners (one world)
4. I had to chose one as I don't fly often enough to gain status with 2 carriers.
Am I disappointed with the ( Simpler and fairer) "Enhancements" over the last few years? You betcha! Will AJ be around for ever? Nope ! Can things change in the future? I hope so.
I sometimes think that investing a little more in ourselves could mean the job I save, maybe my own!!
 
It's called CODB ... (cost of doing business)

For those that respect and want to retain: 1st class working conditions, excellent salary/super, home grown jobs, spectacular IR structure - shouldn't complain! or, shop around.
 
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I would suspect in the case of E K. It's all about the ability to compete. I'm no expert but I suspect they get their fuel a wee bit cheaper. As for CX. What is the average wage across the whole company compared to QF? ( and even EK for that matter). If an airline has a "lower" cost base I'm confident they can price their product accordingly. We in Australia love to repeat the mantra "Buy Australian". But frankly we don't want to pay for manufactured goods that have Australian wages and conditions attached.
I am just as guilty as the next man BTW , so no living in glass houses over here.
I fly QF as exclusively as possible, my reasons are
1. It's our National carrier
2. I already have Life time QP courtesy of an old Australian Airlines LT flight Deck card
3. Decent partners (one world)
4. I had to chose one as I don't fly often enough to gain status with 2 carriers.
Am I disappointed with the ( Simpler and fairer) "Enhancements" over the last few years? You betcha! Will AJ be around for ever? Nope ! Can things change in the future? I hope so.
I sometimes think that investing a little more in ourselves could mean the job I save, maybe my own!!

Whilst I agree with the sentiment of your reply I do disagree with a few things.

Over the last few years Qantas cost base has been decreasing significantly to the point where it is believed they are competitive.

I understand that the ratio of Crew ( as Mentioned in several threads here ) to passengers on other airlines is higher thus potentially negating the possible slightly higher Australian staff costs.

Yes Lets keep jobs in Australia, QF have made significant changes to crewing especially qfi with more staff being sourced from the UK and NZ.

I will always try and support Australian Manufactured goods and Companies as long as they also look after, IMHO Qantas has failed here.

Lets now also consider the LCC operation Jetstar who are often the same price as QF when adding bundles luggage and meals and considerably more expensive than other LCC such as Scoot, Air Asia etc. As a QF company and with the best low cost operating aircraft in the group and lowest staffing cost why are they also not competitive with other comparable LCC's?

Should we blindly support non competitive industries or companies in Australia, Classic example the car industry, or should we be looking for business areas and company's where we can compete.

The level of service is way too variable and unpredictable on QF to justify variations in price of 10 to 15% Plus of competitors.

hard product is very variable and yes I concede it is being addressed on the A330 but they will not have consistent IFE systems across all aircraft, a wasted opportunity in my opinion.

Lets not start talking about simpler and fairer, nor the high cost of redemptions and the ridiculous taxes and levy's apportioned to award seats....

One World has previously been very good however since the EK tie up this has retreated to the point that it is not now worth flying many of the OW airlines as the FF points and status credits are pitiful and the redemptions significantly more expensive.

Yes lets give QF a GO.
 
Doing some planning / snooping around for some fares for a flight between Perth & New York, and for the sake of this discussion used the dates 1/6/15 to 8/6/15

Emirates - $8,523
CX - $9,077
QF - $10,784

I want to fly QF but why would you spend the extra $2.2K for loyalty?

Now where's Limewood? He would probably say "why on earth are you paying for a retail J class airfare when you could buy Alaska Airlines miles and redeem for CX J class airfares for maybe one third of the price?"
 
For the vast majority of my bookings, LCC's aside, QF are the best value for me. And I'm very dollar driven.
 
Its usually the case that Thai is more expensive in Thailand, Singapore in Singapore, Cathay in Hong Kong. People do pay more to fly their home carrier.
 
For the vast majority of my bookings, LCC's aside, QF are the best value for me. And I'm very dollar driven.

QF is always cheaper HKG to Aus than CX so I have actually never flown Cx to Australia since moving here. QF PE product is also much better.
 
Doing some planning / snooping around for some fares for a flight between Perth & New York, and for the sake of this discussion used the dates 1/6/15 to 8/6/15

Emirates - $8,523
CX - $9,077
QF - $10,784

I want to fly QF but why would you spend the extra $2.2K for loyalty?

I am not a Qantas 'fanboi' and have articulated on many threads why Qantas doesn't cut it for me, however a sample of one date does not prove your view that Qantas is not competitive. I think Qantas pricing is quite competitive especially when they are on sale, or have 2 for 1 premium deals. For example $600 economy return from Sydney to Singapore is very good value through to Sydney to USA return in business for $7,000.
 
Now where's Limewood? He would probably say "why on earth are you paying for a retail J class airfare when you could buy Alaska Airlines miles and redeem for CX J class airfares for maybe one third of the price?"

Good luck with AS. Out of all programmes I found they are the hardest to find availability to HK, especially for two pax.
 
Qantas was very competitive regardless of what people think. In a way they still are competitive. Some good fares to HKG and SIN that are simply not matched by other legacy carriers.

Where Qantas has tightened up is airfares sold outside of Australia. There were wonderful deals ex-SIN and other countries and no seasonality for return flights to Australia. The airfares ex-Brazil without fuel surcharges put a stop to it.
 
I notice PER's "defacto" international carrier - SQ have price around the same as QF on those dates, also 2 stop like QF (instead of 1 like CX & EK). So QF aren't the only high price.
 
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Where Qantas has tightened up is airfares sold outside of Australia. There were wonderful deals ex-SIN and other countries and no seasonality for return flights to Australia.

Has QF tightened up, or is just that the fall of the AUD has made these less worthwhile? Tables have turned, instead of Australian originating pax doing nested returns ex-SIN, I'm now doing nested returns ex-MEL!
 
Now where's Limewood? He would probably say "why on earth are you paying for a retail J class airfare when you could buy Alaska Airlines miles and redeem for CX J class airfares for maybe one third of the price?"

I try to spend $ with anything Aussie, but if its high fares or availability is not there well then get what you can on another decent airline. Of course if you are paying for it yourself as I do, then long haul its AS or AA miles, but as QF award seats in J are so limited most times its not them. If one is chasing QF points and paying then of course its a different story.

Take today for instance AirNZ have Y flights from OZ to USA for under a grand.
 
All three carriers share similar flight and service experiences and it is sad that we cant purchase Australian.

Saying that the QF companion sale for NY is good pricing and I will be taking them up on their offer.
 
Definitely is home market tax. I live in AKL now but fly regularly back to Oz and see this same "tax" here for the Kiwi's. 9 times out of 10 Qantas and EK are cheaper than AirNZ trans-tasman, normally by well over $100, yet all the Kiwis in my office always book AirNZ. I think this is a mix of not wanting to fly with an Australian company and wanting to top up their Airpoints. Same is even more apparent domestically where you can fly on a new and often half empty (i.e. guaranteed shadow, quick loading, on time) JQ flight for at least half the price of the same flight on AirNZ on a 734.
As a half Swiss Pom, with Oz citizenship, living in NZ I am international enough to look beyond petty local pride and book what actually is best for me.
 
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