Banks Vs Airlines

[RooFlyer]

I've been having quite a bit of interaction with my bank 'customer service' this week (CBA, as it happens but I've also used ANZ and the experience was about the same, if not a bit worse) and it made me think about that experience and how it compares with interaction with airlines' 'customer service' .

The comparison is very imperfect of course but there are a number of similarities, especially if we are talking about when something goes wrong and we want the company to 'fix it'. When push comes to shove, I reckon our big, bad, cough banks have it all over the airlines and I wonder what other people think.

Both banks and airlines like to push you to a web site to 'complain' (or as both put it 'give feedback'), but when you are not satisfied with that, in my experience banks now realize that they have to allow some direct one-on-one interaction, either by phone or at a branch and they are much more pro-active in dealing with the customer's specific circumstances. Airlines seem to try to push the generic line for longer, or rely on strict T&Cs even when the situation manifestly isn't covered by those. In my biggest complaint against an airline (QF as it happened, but it could have been any of them) when I was insisting to speak to meet some-one personally as I had been given a complete run-around by 'customer service' after a deal of pushing I did eventually get to see some-one relatively senior and they not only resolved things to my entire satisfaction but professed to be very grateful that I brought the issue to their attention, and asked to meet again later to give them direct feedback on all sorts of issues on the airline.

'Red Roo' here on AFF does take up a number of complaints or problems personally and I gather fixes many of them, even ones which have been otherwise on foot for a long time. Nice for AFFers but would be nicer still if the great unwashed could get their issues dealt with more pro-actively as well.


Banks have a much worse reputation, I think, for customer service (probably a legacy of their attitudes 5 or so years ago) but these days, I think you can get a quicker, more satisfactory result from a Big Bank in the face of a complaint than you get from a Big Airline.

 

[harvyk]

Banks are def worse than airlines... No one is forced to fly (there are always options / some people who just don't travel), everyone is forced to use a bank (and the banks know it, when was the last time you got paid in cash?)... As a result there is little incentive to actually do anything to lift their game. Whilst of course if you are in control of a hundred million dollars worth of business, this is a different story, since such amounts will affect the banks bottom line, however for the average person, with perhaps $500,000 worth of business (once you include all loans / savings / deposit accounts), that amount of money wouldn't even be a blip on their radar.

 

[burmans]

One of the differences for banks is the ombudsman schemes, it is very costly for banks to have complaints escalated so they are more likely to want to resolve if possible (somewhat regardless of whther your complaint is true or not).

Not sure of the "everyone is forced to use banks" line, havent you heard of credit unions and building societies. Most of what banks can do they can do.

 

[RooFlyer]

Banks are def worse than airlines... No one is forced to fly (there are always options / some people who just don't travel), everyone is forced to use a bank (and the banks know it, when was the last time you got paid in cash?)... As a result there is little incentive to actually do anything to lift their game. Whilst of course if you are in control of a hundred million dollars worth of business, this is a different story, since such amounts will affect the banks bottom line, however for the average person, with perhaps $500,000 worth of business (once you include all loans / savings / deposit accounts), that amount of money wouldn't even be a blip on their radar.

Not contesting your point, but don't you think banks have lifted their game in the past few years? My business is more in the micro category, rather than small, but when I had a moderately serious issue recently, I was able to talk in person to somebody, who dealt with it and sorted it and reported back to me. Airlines I grant you don't have branches, but the last time before last that I simply tried to get points credited, it took 3 phone calls, with the first one denying flatly that I had a claim!

Believe me, I'm no lover of banks, but I think they have, in general, realized that they need to give more satisfactory service, whereas Airlines still try to make you give up by making it so difficult to pursue a complaint. Ever dealt with Lufthansa?

 

[harvyk]

One of the differences for banks is the ombudsman schemes, it is very costly for banks to have complaints escalated so they are more likely to want to resolve if possible (somewhat regardless of whther your complaint is true or not).

Not sure of the "everyone is forced to use banks" line, havent you heard of credit unions and building societies. Most of what banks can do they can do.

Different name, same evil... Yes they are a thorn in the big banks side, but the reality is that they are still part of the financial industry which we are legally required to use, and thus have no choice...

 

[harvyk]

Not contesting your point, but don't you think banks have lifted their game in the past few years? My business is more in the micro category, rather than small, but when I had a moderately serious issue recently, I was able to talk in person to somebody, who dealt with it and sorted it and reported back to me. Airlines I grant you don't have branches, but the last time before last that I simply tried to get points credited, it took 3 phone calls, with the first one denying flatly that I had a claim!

Believe me, I'm no lover of banks, but I think they have, in general, realized that they need to give more satisfactory service, whereas Airlines still try to make you give up by making it so difficult to pursue a complaint. Ever dealt with Lufthansa?

Can't say I've ever dealt with LH, but I have certainly been given the run around by the banks in recent years, where as most of my dealings with airlines have been pretty good, and when I have had problems, they have been pretty pro-active in fixing things. The banks on the other hand IME have a policy of sweeping things under the rug and hope that I don't notice.

 

[rickylee]

I think that Australian airlines have better customer service and interaction than Australian banks. Certainly would not extend the same comparison to overseas airlines, especially given the shockers I have experienced with some European and US airlines - not to name any airline specifically like British Airways, CSA Czech Airlines, or Delta Airlines, and having not dealt with that many overseas banks.

I think a more interesting comparison would be between telcos and airlines.

 

[harvyk]

I think a more interesting comparison would be between telcos and airlines.

Telcos v Banks, now that's where a race to the bottom is at...
Since telecommunications is considered to be as important as electricity and running water, and considering there is only a few actual networks existing in this country, there is little incentive for the Telco's to actually pick up their game from a customer point of view. (Yes I realize that according to the TIO, the number of complains has been dropping)

 

[lovestotravel]

Since telecommunications is considered to be as important as electricity and running water, and considering there is only a few actual networks existing in this country, there is little incentive for the Telco's to actually pick up their game from a customer point of view. (Yes I realize that according to the TIO, the number of complains has been dropping)

Rubbish - The TIO is a very powerfull force is getting customer problems resolved
Banks - Again another ombudsmen
Airlines - No such complaint process exists, except for going through your local fair trading/consumer affairs department, but they can't force the airline to do anything and if you want to continue to push the point it will be up to you to take them to Court.

 

[harvyk]

Rubbish - The TIO is a very powerfull force is getting customer problems resolved
Banks - Again another ombudsmen
Airlines - No such complaint process exists, except for going through your local fair trading/consumer affairs department, but they can't force the airline to do anything and if you want to continue to push the point it will be up to you to take them to Court.

and you've totally missed the point of my post...

My post had to do with a comparison of banks vs telcos. I am fully aware that in each of those industries an effective ombudsman exists, I've used the TIO in the past. However ombudsmen only exist to help regulate industries where the market is unable to do so themselves. For example with both a bank and a telco, in this day and age, you might not like them, but short of becoming a hobbit living out bush somewhere, you are forced to use both of these services, and since the entry costs are quite high to enter either of these markets, real competition is unable to take a foot hold. An ombudman was brought in since there was little the market could do to bring banks / telcos into line...

 

[Melburnian1]

I had a fraud problem with an NAB account.

NAB were fantastic: paid me everything I'd 'lost' and resolved matters promptly. I couldn't ask for more.

Such a contrast with airlines, particularly QF. Most airlines operate anonymously and are not interested in resolving complaints. They just hope you'll go awy, which most do.

Our banks are way ahead of our airlines.

 

[vantage03]

I've been having quite a bit of interaction with my bank 'customer service' this week (CBA, as it happens but I've also used ANZ and the experience was about the same, if not a bit worse).

Interesting thread. It should be noted that CBA in particular are extremely customer service oriented. There was a point a couple of years ago when their previous CEO Ralph Norris had his entire bonus riding on Customer Satisfaction to ensure that the bank completely fixed themselves up in that area. I loved hearing that as for me personally (an I know not everyone will agree with me here) customer service is as important, if not more important, than the product itself.

As for Telcos and other Banks... I am DREADING having to call Telstra today as my Bigpond is out. The other one for me which is probably the worst company in Australia for customer service is American Express.

 

[Cynicor]

Interesting thread. It should be noted that CBA in particular are extremely customer service oriented. There was a point a couple of years ago when their previous CEO Ralph Norris had his entire bonus riding on Customer Satisfaction to ensure that the bank completely fixed themselves up in that area. I loved hearing that as for me personally (an I know not everyone will agree with me here) customer service is as important, if not more important, than the product itself.

As for Telcos and other Banks... I am DREADING having to call Telstra today as my Bigpond is out. The other one for me which is probably the worst company in Australia for customer service is American Express.

I agree with Telstra staff in general being poor, but AMEX; Really?

I have generally not needed to call up more than once to have a problem resolved and often use the secure email as it is quick and easy and requires no hold time. I would say that every other bank (that I use) is worse than Amex!

 

[johnhoney]

I have been dealing with VA since January & my two calls to their Sydney office showed no interest. Since then two web "contact us" have been ignored as has a letter sent 6 weeks ago. Today I am writing to Mr Borghetti hoping that he can direct assistance for me. The subject matter is very simple, being property left on a plane. Hopefully some results will occur, but gone are the days when their service was excellent.

 

[pearler47]

Modern marketers in biggish companies now try to "put one over you" rather than market a solution or product. See the reams of terms and conditions. See the incomparable plans that telcos, power companies and the like dish up. Banks offering cheap balance transfers to new customers whilst continuing to get full whack out of long term customers. See the change in frequent flyer programs that devalue your points or make it difficult to use points to go where you wish to go. I could go on....................

 

[rickylee]

Isn't the take home message here is that airline customer service tends to be bad and has room for improvement?

I have had a few occasions that I found I was lied to by an airline's customer service, such as being moved from my selected seat in F because there was apparently a need for a bassinet on a flight that turned out not to have any babies or toddlers in F or J. Or being told that they cannot tie two separate bookings for the same flight together for seat selection purposes, despite a different customer service rep having done exactly that for me just 6 hours before that for another flight. That said, when I did have a serious gripe, one of those straw-that-breaks-the-camel's-back events, I am often impressed by how quickly and attentively they are willing to fix my problem.

 

[bobw]

I've dealt with Lufthansa.. I'm a member of 'Miles & More'. After 2 business class trips to Europe and trying to get points, I gave up. Qantas on the other hand very quickly found missing points for a couple of Finnair flights.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

I'm no lover of banks, but I think they have, in general, realized that they need to give more satisfactory service, whereas Airlines still try to make you give up by making it so difficult to pursue a complaint.

I think this statement is so true.

Banks in more recent years, have been jumped on by some powerful people and some not so powerful people (remember that guy who forced Westpac to back down on introducing a new fee because he still had a pamphlet from years earlier stating that account would be free forever?) and I think they have learnt they can still be very profitable as well as being user friendly (of sorts).

The airline industry in Australia still has no idea where it wants to go, even after so many years since the abolition of the duopoly and seems to have no idea as to how to get there. I can remember the last time I had a complaint against a bank (Macquarie) and they lost my business forever over it and it was many years ago, but complaints (either made or dropped) against airlines happen multiple times every year for me. TBH, most times I couldn't be bothered making a complaint against an airline as I know it'll just lead to aggravation and often no end benefit, so why bother (and that's definitely the outcome the airlines are hoping for). Social media seems to be the best method of getting an airline to respond favourably so my suggestion is that if someone does actually want something more than lip service from an airline, use every method you can to achieve it, not just their "preferred" official pathway to dispute irresolution!

 

[tgh]

My experience is that the banks have really lifted their game, we lend more than we borrow , but in every communication there seems to be a fairly switched on human to talk to.

For some org's there is probably some kind of a cost/benefit decision to be made in "availability to discuss" .
Airlines, telco's and CC org's do have a problem in dealing with multitudes of customers who know their rights and believe they have entitlements.
The cost of talking to everyone with a beef .. is probably immense.

Many years back , LAN stole two business class fares and if not for Amex , I doubt if I would have ever got them back.
Telstra's customer service model is a National disgrace( IMnsHO) , bikie gangs selling drugs have a more appealing public profile.

 

[N860CR]

Going through a battle with Telstra at the moment... I can honestly say they are the worst. The total abuse of the ombudsman system is disgraceful and, unfortunately, they're above the process and they know it.

Thus far in my dealing with Telstra... They never even responded to my initial complaint other than the automated "we'll get back to you within 3 days and resolve within 5" and the initially ignored the ombudsman as well.

Problem is... Said ombudsman just keeps giving them more time (still no further to a resolution now for a December complaint).

Unfortunately, Australian companies are good at screwing people. And our systems are setup to help them do it