Loyalty A Tale of Two Parties

[TonyHancock]

In my example if QF did that, they would have every single person using them for every flight and thus a very loyal following.

Is that working for Tiger? That seems to be the model they are following. Are their customers loyal? Genuine question I have no idea.

 

[JohnPhelan]

Is that working for Tiger? That seems to be the model they are following. Are their customers loyal? Genuine question I have no idea.

They are loyal to whichever airline offers the cheapest fare. So yes, consistently cheap fares do engender loyalty. But it's loyalty based on price, not value.

 

[TonyHancock]

They are loyal to whichever airline offers the cheapest fare. So yes, consistently cheap fares do engender loyalty. But it's loyalty based on price, not value.

....but wouldn't that mean that if JQ was cheaper next week they'd fly JQ, and then if VA was cheaper the following week they'd fly VA and so on. Doesn't seem to be much loyalty there or am I missing, as I usually do, something?

 

[trippin_the_rift]

There's no such thing as loyalty.

It's one giant game.

 

[Ansett]

Loyalty ???


Why do suppliers advertise and build brand image?

Is it to build Brand Loyalty?

So Qantas advertising and pronoting the AUSTRALIAN airline is a method of building Brand Loyalty/

Brand Loyalty with Qantas is rewarded in the form of the FF programme.

So any dilution on the FF programme can be seen as reduction in the reward for loyalty.

Now the way I see it is If I am paying a premium in order to receive a reward for my loyalty and that reward is then reduced then the choices are.

Expect a reduction in the premium I pay to obtain a reward

If no reduction Look at alternative options that provide the same level of reward ot a lower premium. - Loss of Brand Loyalty

How can a loss of Brand Loyalty be good for any company?

How can this be good for Qantas?

 

[amaroo]

They are loyal to whichever airline offers the cheapest fare. So yes, consistently cheap fares do engender loyalty. But it's loyalty based on price, not value.

You could think the very same thing with the introduction of MASA and the upheaval it's caused amongst the ranks..

 

[drron]

When QFF first started enhancing many years ago I switched my loyalty and began crediting to AA.
So no point crying over spilt milk.Repay the enhancements in kind.

 

[TonyHancock]

Picture the scene, far away in East Cheam, Griselda settles down in front of her computer at 23 Railway Cuttings, she has to book her boss' flight to London. He is a Qantas Platinum One, and a handsome* one at that, in a sort of Shaun Williamson way, although that is not central to the story.

As she tapped away at the keyboard it became clear there were two choices; Cathay Pacific via Hong Kong or Qantas via Dubai, both flights, in business class, were the same price. Both airlines were part of Oneworld so Mr Hancock, her ruggedly handsome^ boss, would be recognised for his Oneworld Emerald status. He would have access to First Class lounges in Australia and either Hong Kong or Dubai. all were excellent.

The seats on Cathay would be more comfortable though, but he would earn less points. On balance though comfort was probably more important.

She changed tabs in her internet browser and went back to the Qantas booking page. "What to do" she said inwardly.

....to be continued.



*Poetic licence
^and again!

 

[UP4014]

For me, the whole Emirates link up was a great move and I still believe that.

EH

It may have been a great move for you, but I refuse to use the Emirates link up for my own reasons.

So I believe is was a very bad move and I still believe that.

Matt

 

[zachary.august]

For me an airline choice comes down to a simple cost benefit analysis. If the cost is fair and the benefits are good then I'll go for that. QF always wins

I have maintained status with many airlines globally but I've cut that down to just QF and SQ, with SQ being my insurance policy in the event of something happening to QF. I like the EK deal since I can see that it saved QF international. I hope that with the 787 QF could start operating DXB-CDG, DXB-FCO, DXB-FRA services which would cement my loyalty permanently.

 

[DaveB]

Unfortunately in my books, QF hasn't won internationally for many years apart from Canadian and US airlines. SQ, CX, VA and EY have proven superior and it has taken considerable effort to whittle my QF points down from 2m to just under a million the past 5 or so years, entirely on domestic J travel where they still has a reach and quality advantage over the VA product. $50k and at least 10m points have since gone elsewhere.
AFF opened my eyes to the status bandwagon and the FASA/JASA concept which in my view was a brilliant method of retaining customer loyalty whilst paying higher prices. I booked my first two JASA'a to Adelaide and Singapore earlier this year and looked to do more, pretty much regardless of cost within reason. C'est la vie, back to SQ, CX and even VA assuming they get their clunky website half decent again.

 

[elbarto]

Y on the EK 777s is terrible. 10 across in a 777 makes for an unacceptably narrow seat.

You know they're no worse than the seats on a 737. The extra leg room makes it worth it in my opinion.

 

[Mr_Orange]

You know they're no worse than the seats on a 737. The extra leg room makes it worth it in my opinion.

That's as maybe, but I'm only ever on a 737 for 2 hours, not 10 and trying to sleep!!

 

[TonyHancock]

....meanwhile

Griselda knew what she would do if she had the opportunity to travel. It required little thought, she would take the Cathay flights. She had no frequent flyer status at all, she rarely traveled, spending most of her time tied~ to her desk slaving away for her demanding boss. Cathay looked glamorous and the seats had received fabulous reviews. (Her boss had often moaned about the "alleged" flat seats on the Qantas A380's.)

The flights weren't for her though they were for her boss and he is a Qantas Platinum One. She knew he would insist upon the Qantas flights, even though the seats and service on Cathay were probably better. Why oh why would he still fly Qantas. Was it out of blind loyalty to "Australia's Airline", not likely he is from East Cheam. She made a note in her desk diary to ask him when he deigned to show himself and went ahead to book the Qantas Flights.

The Lad Himself appeared just before lunch and she confirmed that his flights had been booked. "Qantas" he asked, "yes" she said.

"I don't understand why you aren't flying Cathay, you are always complaining about Qantas service or seats."

"Ahh" said the great* man "it is simple".

"When I fly Qantas I'll probably have at least one leg upgraded to First Class, my Platinum One status will be recognised by the crew who may bring me delights from the first Class cabin if I am sitting in Business. If anything goes wrong I can rely on the Platinum One team to ensure my trip continues smoothly."

"I see" said Griselda

His wonderfulness^ continued, "There is a little more though, I will earn approximately 20,000 points more with Qantas and those points will help fund marginal any seat awards in the future, keeping me at the pointier end of the plane and earning me more points and status credits."

Griselda had time to reflect on this when her boss headed off for his afternoon nap. Qantas had been clever by offering extended benefits to keep her boss' business. He had seemed particularly animated about the marginal any seat award. It wasn't really about loyalty it was more of a mutually beneficial business relationship. As long as her boss traveled as frequently as he did he would maintain his Platinum One status and Qantas would provide him with additional benefits, if he stopped and flew with someone else he would not keep his status and Qantas would take the benefits away.

Whilst knowing that her boss was a pompous half wit and status was important to him Griselda could see that the biggest benefit was undoubtedly the marginal any seat awards, these were critical to keeping him flying at the correct end of the aircraft. If these were removed it would undoubtedly effect the mutual business relationship. She wondered how though. What would the alternatives be?

...to be continued..maybe...probably in about two months time!!!

~ Not literally
*Poetic Licence
^Simply untrue

 

[harvyk]

Whilst I am no where near the dizzying heights of P1 or even a WP, I do have to agree with Tony Hancocks story, and whilst I am under no illusions as to what my loyalty means to QF, I will continue to enjoy the extra benefits I do get by directing all my flights to them whilst they continue to offer said extra benefits, and I will continue to complain at every enhancement.

Also airlines like Tiger, they are in a different market to QF. They have built their business around budget, there is some degree of loyalty among budget pax, it's more a familiarity than actual loyalty (people are a creature of habit). That said in some case the difference between them choosing airline 1 vs airline 2 is $5.

 

[TheEmu]

….meanwhile
…
"… I'll probably have at least one leg upgraded to First Class…"
…

Had poor Griselda been aware that His Wonderfulness^ had detachable legs?

^Simply Untrue

An enchanting little parable, thank you.

 

[EmilyHoward]

....meanwhile

Griselda knew what she would do if she had the opportunity to travel. It required little thought, she would take the Cathay flights. She had no frequent flyer status at all, she rarely traveled, spending most of her time tied~ to her desk slaving away for her demanding boss. Cathay looked glamorous and the seats had received fabulous reviews. (Her boss had often moaned about the "alleged" flat seats on the Qantas A380's.)

The flights weren't for her though they were for her boss and he is a Qantas Platinum One. She knew he would insist upon the Qantas flights, even though the seats and service on Cathay were probably better. Why oh why would he still fly Qantas. Was it out of blind loyalty to "Australia's Airline", not likely he is from East Cheam. She made a note in her desk diary to ask him when he deigned to show himself and went ahead to book the Qantas Flights.

The Lad Himself appeared just before lunch and she confirmed that his flights had been booked. "Qantas" he asked, "yes" she said.

"I don't understand why you aren't flying Cathay, you are always complaining about Qantas service or seats."

"Ahh" said the great* man "it is simple".

"When I fly Qantas I'll probably have at least one leg upgraded to First Class, my Platinum One status will be recognised by the crew who may bring me delights from the first Class cabin if I am sitting in Business. If anything goes wrong I can rely on the Platinum One team to ensure my trip continues smoothly."

"I see" said Griselda

His wonderfulness^ continued, "There is a little more though, I will earn approximately 20,000 points more with Qantas and those points will help fund marginal any seat awards in the future, keeping me at the pointier end of the plane and earning me more points and status credits."

Griselda had time to reflect on this when her boss headed off for his afternoon nap. Qantas had been clever by offering extended benefits to keep her boss' business. He had seemed particularly animated about the marginal any seat award. It wasn't really about loyalty it was more of a mutually beneficial business relationship. As long as her boss traveled as frequently as he did he would maintain his Platinum One status and Qantas would provide him with additional benefits, if he stopped and flew with someone else he would not keep his status and Qantas would take the benefits away.

Whilst knowing that her boss was a pompous half wit and status was important to him Griselda could see that the biggest benefit was undoubtedly the marginal any seat awards, these were critical to keeping him flying at the correct end of the aircraft. If these were removed it would undoubtedly effect the mutual business relationship. She wondered how though. What would the alternatives be?

...to be continued..maybe...probably in about two months time!!!

~ Not literally
*Poetic Licence
^Simply untrue

Please post pic of Griselda.

EH

 

[Edge]

I've been doing a bit of thinking about the QFF program lately.. particularly about status levels, the benefits they provide customers and what it costs Qantas to provide them.

1. Benefits with no QF cost:
- Priority check-in
- Priority boarding
- Priority seat selection
- Tiered access to award seats

2. Benefits with a large fixed cost component but only incremental costs as membership numbers increase:
- Lounge access
- Priority phone access

3. Benefits that cost Qantas significantly for each additional member:
- Points earning multipliers
- Increased baggage allowance

This is just a basic summary, I'm sure there's plenty of benefits that I've missed. Of course the interesting thing is that the benefits in groups 1 & 2 do become devalued as the number of people that have access to those benefits increases.

Overall, though, it makes sense for Qantas to entice as many people to "chase status" as possible. It costs them nothing to allow priority boarding or opening up an extra row for seat selection. They've already invested millions in establishing their lounge network. While a lot of them are already over-crowded the difference in cost between having 100,000 members with lounge access vs 105,000 members with lounge access would be minimal. The key cost (my assumption) is the increased points earn on higher statuses. But then again, how many people earn the majority of their points from flying, compared with credit card programs? I wouldn't think that members accruing more flying points is something that worries Qantas that much.

It seems counter-productive for Qantas to make it more difficult to chase status (removal of online ASA bookings) when it's a game that it's clearly very beneficial for both them and their customers.

I stand by the point I made on another thread: It would simplify a lot of things if Qantas allowed classic awards to earn SCs. Do away with "ASAs" and just leave the options as Classic and Points + Pay. Any time you're in the air you deserve to earn SCs, you're paying for the fare in one way or another.

 

[TonyHancock]

Please post pic of Griselda.

EH

Formidable Woman, very poor on the gravy making front though...uses too much flour.

 

[EmilyHoward]

View attachment 17712

Formidable Woman, very poor on the gravy making front though...uses too much flour.

Thin gravy is the go I agree

EH