Introducing Virgin Blue's new A330 Service

[lovestotravel]

I'm kind of amused at how hard it is for DJ to please re: marketing timing.

I don't quite get what else they could do.

Announce the FULL re-branding at the same time!

So new brand, pricing, menus, structure, routes, IFE, seating, existing fleet upgrade plans, everything in one go!

Gimmicks like free limo transfers for 2 months will not keep customers loyal

 

[Moopere]

What do you really expect ?

Its a great question. I think I was expecting a bit of a blitz on QF's J market share. But now that I'm thinking about it what I should say is that this is what I was _hoping_ for, not quite the same as one might _expect_ I suppose.

Its always a problem for a new player or any entity trying to 'win' customers away from an existing obvious incumbent. Is it enough to provide close or the same services for close or the same dollar? I'd argue its not nearly enough unless the market can be expanded by doing this. If you need to _win_ market share rather than _grow_ your market then you generally have to be better, faster, cheaper, shinier, etc, etc.

The problem is partially one of inertia. Folks will stay with what they know unless something extraordinary jolts them out of their continuum.

Now, if someone pops up with a vastly and obviously greater service/product/package for similar money to the existing monopoly then you are probably on a winner - at least until the monopoly wakes up and flexes its muscles, presuming it can do this successfully, large corporates also suffer tremendous inertia. Of course you will also draw a significant initial 'bang' as folks try you out for the novelty value, but this usually fades extremely quickly if there is no real and measurable ultimate gain in either service, product or price.

They have simply copied the Emirates seating...

Nothing new, nothing revolutionary

Yes, so it seems.

 

[777]

Announce the FULL re-branding at the same time!

Not trying to be difficult but why? Obviously you're curious, i'm curious as well but i see no practical reason whatsoever why they would or should do it. They'd just be telegraphing their punches to QF and creating unmet expectations for products that don't exist yet.

So new brand, pricing, menus, structure, routes, IFE, seating, existing fleet upgrade plans, everything in one go!

New brand does not exist, is not yet on anything and may still be the subject of negotiations.

Pricing of what? The new J product is now for sale and pricing has been announced. Probably gives a clue as to how they they will price their J offering on other routes - 3/4 the (nominal) price of QF J seems to be what they've pitched it at. I'd say that's a fair estimate of where the (non existent) J product on other routes will be pitched.

Menus? Were announce the day they were changed as they were available. I'd suggest if they'd announced it 2 months earlier a fair proportion of the forum and the travelling public would have complained and/or been confused that they got an a DJ flight only to be confronted by the old menu: Cue complaints about DJ announcing products they are not offering... yet.

Routes? Anywhere in particular that they don't have planes flying to and that you can't book tickets on that you want them to tell you about first?

IFE? So you would like DJ to promote a new IFE option that is not available on ANY flight they are currently offering or installed in any planes? What would be the rationale for doing that? I can only see how it would generate ill will. As it stands, i'd be 90% sure that once they start promoting a new IFE offering all passengers who get stuck with the old one in the transition phase will complain about it -- better off to minimise the time frame rather than draw that process out of months/ years wouldn't you think?

Seating. Again, what's the point until you can sit in it?

Fleet upgrade plans: probably reasonable for DJ to offer an explanation WHEN they announce what they are moving towards of how long it will take to get there and what to expect in the transition. Prior to that seems stupidly premature.

I really dont see any point in announcing or promoting any of the above UNTIL THERE IS AN ACTUAL PRODUCT. Inherently it's a long and unpredictable process - i still remember the old JQ in flight magazines that advertised their forthcoming 787 dreamliners back in about 07/08. As nice as it was to know that it was happening it seems kind of premature in hindsight.

Gimmicks like free limo transfers for 2 months will not keep customers loyal

I don't think that's the point somehow. I think it's to get people to try the new product who weren't previous DJ flyers.

To me, the alternative to current approach is for DJ to essentially announce a stack of products that don't exist, create demand that they are not yet equipped to meet, and to generate expectations that they don't have the equipment and systems in place to manage. Also, they'd telegraph several years of strategy to QF while they were at it. Strikes me as stupid, verging on suicidal from a marketing point of view.

Remember, most of the travelling public aren't anywhere near as obsessive as us and simply expect things to be available once they've been announced.

777.

 

[markis10]

What do you really expect ? They have simply copied the Emirates seating...

Nothing new, nothing revolutionary

Its new and revolutionary to have a choice in J on the route, even if the product has some aspects that have been seen elsewhere, and while the 232 options is not the best, at least we know what will be the last 4 seats to be occupied, if there not then the 4 rows of 3 become very nice and private seats!

 

[777]

Its new and revolutionary to have a choice in J on the route, even if the product has some aspects that have been seen elsewhere, and while the 232 options is not the best, at least we know what will be the last 4 seats to be occupied, if there not then the 4 rows of 3 become very nice and private seats!

Actually, one other thing...

IF DJ had announced their intention for a 2-3-2 config in J a few months ago does anyone really think that QF would have reconfigged theirs? In this case, the uncertainty has helped the travelling public quite nicely.

 

[lovestotravel]

I guess you missed the whole point of my post but what I think they should have done.

Wait for everything to be worked out and then announce the whole lot in one massive PR event!!!!! The whole lot and time frames of when it's going to happen.

We now have white planes, planes without IFE, Emirates seating and IFE. One plane with the Boeing Sky interior, oh and new menus...

Sounds like a a nice mixed bag.......of bits and pieces.

As for the limo transfers, corporate customers are not going to care.... Head office books flights, and they are given an allowance for a taxi/private taxi/private car.... As part of a corporate deal who really knows what is offered and the costs included...

As I said I'll wait til the end of June for all these silly little announcements to fall into place and we'll see how it all looks. By then it will no doubt look great and be a great competitive product to QF. :mrgreen:

 

[Moopere]

Actually, one other thing...

IF DJ had announced their intention for a 2-3-2 config in J a few months ago does anyone really think that QF would have reconfigged theirs? In this case, the uncertainty has helped the travelling public quite nicely.

Its a nice thought, and certainly competition does work this way, however, I'm certain QF execs would be all over what DJ is up to. Commercial espionage is a real thing. I'd be dumbfounded if QF didn't know what was coming within hours or certainly days of decisions being made at DJ.

 

[lovestotravel]

Its a nice thought, and certainly competition does work this way, however, I'm certain QF execs would be all over what DJ is up to. Commercial espionage is a real thing. I'd be dumbfounded if QF didn't know what was coming within hours or certainly days of decisions being made at DJ.

Indeed - I do laugh at companies (like the one I work at) that try to keep everything so secret, then the competition comes out with similar product/plan/ideas/thoughts before our plans are announced.

I am sure Qantas knew many months ago what DJ was going to do with seating and I am sure QF know alot more than we do at present..

Also given that DJ are using ex emirates A330's with a pretty good seat layout, it's also not hard to put 2 and 2 together from that alone.

2-2-2 is still a good selling point on QF even with far reduced seat pitch, it's only a 5 hour flight.

 

[Freqy Flyer]

Thats true and although I didn't comment above I did notice it from the promo photos.

Still, I find it odd, considering how this format was received by QF customers when it first appeared on their A330's, ie, not very well, that DJ has gone down the same road.

But because they are Virgin, the underdog, it's OK. QF do it and they are crucified.

Does anyone know what the price jumps to when this special intro woohaa has finished?

 

[777]

Its a nice thought, and certainly competition does work this way, however, I'm certain QF execs would be all over what DJ is up to. Commercial espionage is a real thing. I'd be dumbfounded if QF didn't know what was coming within hours or certainly days of decisions being made at DJ.

Actually whether QF knew or not is not the point. The point is that the perceived threat of a competitor made them reverse a plan and remove a product that they had already put out there. Wouldn't have been any use for them whatsoever to have argued "but DJ are going to the same" if there was nothing to point to.

If there was no perceived competitive threat i don't see why they would have rolled it back.

 

[lovestotravel]

But because they are Virgin, the underdog, it's OK. QF do it and they are crucified.

Does anyone know what the price jumps to when this special intro woohaa has finished?

If they can fill the seats, and I use the words IF....

About the same as Qantas normal prices, much like the current Virgin economy fares which are the same or higher than Qantas in lots of cases.

It will be another choice but don't expect cheap fares all the time

 

[777]

I guess you missed the whole point of my post but what I think they should have done.

Wait for everything to be worked out and then announce the whole lot in one massive PR event!!!!! The whole lot and time frames of when it's going to happen.

We now have white planes, planes without IFE, Emirates seating and IFE. One plane with the Boeing Sky interior, oh and new menus...

Sounds like a a nice mixed bag.......of bits and pieces.

As opposed to a mix bag of bits of pieces with a announcements and a marketing campaign for a product that does not exist?

It is physically impossible to roll out new livery, new lounges, new IFE, new fleet, new brand, new business class seats, etc at one time.

So then the practical question: do you announce and promote the finished product (the ambition) before you have the reality in place? Or do you announce the components as you introduce them and then hit the advertising PR/ marketing blitz when you have enough of them in place that the product on offer is the one that matches the one you are promoting?

I can't see how doing the former wouldn't lead to a much, much, much bigger backlash than the one we are seeing now.

 

[Misha]

FWIW Whilst I do find the staged release as annoying as a mosquito in a room at night that you just can't find when you turn on the light - I still think that 777's comments are totally valid and as I said before from a purely marketing perspective - it's pure genius.

Still, I agree with others too: it does quite p*** one off

I think perhaps a good compromise would be if DJ (in line with their new NWC concept) did the staged-release in a less childish "I know something you don't know" manner... and openly said "A" will be released on this date, "B" on this date, "C" etc etc etc

Stick to your strategy, have a gradual roll out, but don't put off potential new clients from QF, and do it in an open, mature way.

Allow me also to point out my absolute loyalty to DJ - I don't even know if their fares are cheaper than QF or not - I just go straight to their website and book away

Misha

 

[lovestotravel]

Sorry, but you are still not getting it...

So I guess we will need to wait until all the planes are refitted with new seating and IFE before they announce anything else ? The same as all the livery, wait until all the planes are painted before announcing anything further ? :shock:

Also NO, it's not impossible to announce all of it, or most of it, at once, Virgin have just chosen to milk this for all it's worth and drag it out.They will announce the business class rollout on all planes well before every plane is finished

• They will announce the new IFE well before every plane has it.
• They will announce new seating/livery etc before every plane has it

As I said, I think it would be much more professional to launch more products/service improvements in one go!

Creating this "buzz" on Facebook, Twitter and the like doesn't relate to bookings. Again I look at the Facebook posts and everyone is just asking for new routes or cheaper fares.. Yes I am sure Virgin will open a new route and have a special because you ask for it on Facebook....

What does relate to bookings is customer service, product and pricing.

 

[777]

Sorry, but you are still not getting it...

So I guess we will need to wait until all the planes are refitted with new seating and IFE before they announce anything else ? The same as all the livery, wait until all the planes are painted before announcing anything further ? :shock:

Also NO, it's not impossible to announce all of it, or most of it, at once, Virgin have just chosen to milk this for all it's worth and drag it out.They will announce the business class rollout on all planes well before every plane is finished

• They will announce the new IFE well before every plane has it.
• They will announce new seating/livery etc before every plane has it

As I said, I think it would be much more professional to launch more products/service improvements in one go!

The key point here is that you are suggesting that they announce these things before ANY plane has them - not before ALL planes have them. Inevitably they will have to announce them once they exist. But they don't and they would be mad to announce them and promote them until they they do.

I get that the drip feed is slightly frustrating and you want to know more. I get that there is obviously a degree of marketing nous behind it that you can buy into or ignore however you please but my point is that there's no point in promoting vapourware. If DJ start promoting something i would expect that exists!

Those of us that are aviation nuts are playing a little game of trying to guess what they will do next - we may or may not fuelling their PR machine - but for the public new product = something you can buy. Until you can buy it there's no point in promoting it.

I think the process of handling the transition from the "old" product to the "new" product will cause plenty of frustration in any case. Why pre-empt by starting to promote it weeks/ months/ years before it exists on ANY service?

 

[LiamR]

From my point of view, they have/trying to create a huge buzz, on Facebook and other social media, and want people to try the 'new virgin' and they hope once people try it, that the product will exceed their expectations, and will realise it isn't as good as QF, and will continue to use it.

That’s why they have these short term offers, airport transfers, gold status ect....

The way I see it, very clever marketing, but annoying for enthusiasts like ourselves when we only get little chunks of info at a time.

As always, happy to be told I'm wrong.....

 

[lovestotravel]

From my point of view, they have/trying to create a huge buzz, on Facebook and other social media, and want people to try the 'new virgin' and they hope once people try it, that the product will exceed their expectations, and will realise it isn't as good as QF, and will continue to use it.

That’s why they have these short term offers, airport transfers, gold status ect....

The way I see it, very clever marketing, but annoying for enthusiasts like ourselves when we only get little chunks of info at a time.

As always, happy to be told I'm wrong.....

Nope, you are 100% right!

 

[777]

From my point of view, they have/trying to create a huge buzz, on Facebook and other social media, and want people to try the 'new virgin' and they hope once people try it, that the product will exceed their expectations, and will realise it isn't as good as QF, and will continue to use it.

That’s why they have these short term offers, airport transfers, gold status ect....

The way I see it, very clever marketing, but annoying for enthusiasts like ourselves when we only get little chunks of info at a time.

As always, happy to be told I'm wrong.....

I think you're right that it's a marketing strategy. Certain aspects of it do really p me off - the liberal Gold status giveaways bug me as someone who has been a loyal DJ gold for several years now. I could have flown with QF for the last 4 years and get exactly the same perks and privileges that i have now on both airlines via a status match. It's a bit insulting!

But... as for the "new DJ" process i still don't see how they can be expected to announce and promote products they dont have in place yet and why anyone would expect them to.

Existence of product = announcement and promotion of product. Non existence of promoted product = consumer backlash.

777.

 

[LiamR]

Existence of product = announcement and promotion of product. Non existence of promoted product = consumer backlash.

777.

Just ask Apple. I have purchased many products from them only for a new model to be unvailed a day later...

Saying that, QF do have a habbit of introducing new products before they are relased, just in a non-annoying way. Eg NCGI... Basicley a vaigue E-Mail, then a description of it, followed by dates and a trial for us all to get our hands on it....

 

[ChrisCunard]

This came via email today from Velocity:

"We are excited to announce Virgin Blue's new Airbus A330 Business Class Service, offering space, comfort and luxury from Sydney to Perth and back again.

With award-winning service, luxury leather seating, 62 inch Business Class seat pitch, multi-channel entertainment and our range of high quality meals designed by Luke Mangan, Virgin Blue's Airbus A330 service will redefine the Domestic Travel experience"

I'm curious to know how DJ Business Service can be award winning given that no one has yet experienced it?