Qantas seating changes! No more First on 747s! New A380s without F!

[DTM1]

There are quite a few people who will tell you that QF F on 744 bites the dust compared to most J in the world.

No doubt about that. All of the following J beat QF's 744 F product (in my order of preference):

CX (new J)
SQ (new J)
LA (new J)
BA (new J)

The only reason I have put CX above SQ is not the product, but b/c as a WP I have access to F check-in and lounge when flying CX, and not F on SQ. All in all, would still take SQ J over BA J though.

 

[anat0l]

No doubt about that. All of the following J beat QF's 744 F product (in my order of preference):

CX (new J)
SQ (new J)
LA (new J)
BA (new J)

The only reason I have put CX above SQ is not the product, but b/c as a WP I have access to F check-in and lounge when flying CX, and not F on SQ. All in all, would still take SQ J over BA J though.

I'd disagree with you on CX new J - it ain't that hot.

BA (not so new, but new) CW is pretty good, but not as good as QF 744 F. It'd give QF Skyslopes a good run for money, though - a very good run.

Haven't tried LA new J but it looks very cool.

SQ J - I've heard that many times; unfortunately, I haven't been able to try it yet. Also, aren't there about 2-4 different SQ J products? Happy to be corrected here....

 

[straitman]

Aviation Week and Space Technology Article

Qantas Slashes First Class Product


Feb 19, 2010
By Adrian Schofield [email protected]

Qantas plans to add capacity to its Boeing 747-400 and Airbus A380 fleets by dramatically reducing its first-class offering on long-haul flights.

By replacing first class sections with business class seats in nine of its 747s and almost half its A380s, the carrier estimates it is adding the equivalent capacity of three 747s. Qantas says that while demand is recovering overall, long-term trends do not auger well for the first-class product.

 

[Dave Noble]

An interesting question is: Is there an pair of airlines where one's F offering is similar or worse than another's J offering?

For example who has flown AA's flagship service first? and is it as good as QF J on the a380?

AA's International 1st class on the 777s has a v nice hard product imo.

Dave

 

[DTM1]

I'd disagree with you on CX new J - it ain't that hot.

BA (not so new, but new) CW is pretty good, but not as good as QF 744 F. It'd give QF Skyslopes a good run for money, though - a very good run.

Haven't tried LA new J but it looks very cool.

SQ J - I've heard that many times; unfortunately, I haven't been able to try it yet. Also, aren't there about 2-4 different SQ J products? Happy to be corrected here....

CX may not be that great, but in terms of comparison to QF 744 F, 2 main points stand out. 1. more privacy on CX and 2. much bigger TV screen.

Goes without saying that CX AVOD cr@ps all over QF generally.

Also, not wanting to sound like a tosser, but 1A and 1K in QF F (the seats with the most privacy) have less leg width than CX J.

The only real aspect of QF F seat that is better is the matress and doona, and even the doona comes third behind LAN and AA long haul.

If you wanted to pull together the best elements of all the airlines, then perhaps that is a topic for another thread, but here goes:

J

Seat - SQ (new)
Doona - LAN
Amenities - LAN
Wine - CX
Food - QF
AVOD - CX
Service - SQ

 

[simongr]

For example who has flown AA's flagship service first? and is it as good as QF J on the a380?

I have flown AA's flagship servce multiple times (coffins and suites) and I will try to provide a comparison after my A380 J flight (unless the upgrade to F comes through).

The key difference though as I see it (setting aside the food and drink on AA which is complete toilet - even Neil Perry's godawful menu on QF J is better than AA F) is the seating arrangement:

AA F - 1-2-1
QF J - 2-2-2

Also the Flagship suite swivels to become a nice desk (or to turn your back on the pax in the seat next to you) as opposed to the fixed seating on QF J.

IFE will be a win for QF J as AA's offering is shocking - but I am not sure if QF have the reliability issues fully fixed yet?

So based on what I have experienced (AA F) and what I know about the hard product on QF J myratings would be:

Seat - AA F
Soft prod - QF J
IFE - QF J
Lounge - QF (as a OWE flying in J)
Earning - AA F

The problem is that there are no routes where AA fly flagship suites that QF fly J on the A380 so it is never a choice you will have to make...

 

[ozmille]

Well only on EK AFAICT.

EY J pax also get this benefit

 

[gumpy]

All i have to say on this matter is that I'm sad that they're taking F away. It is something that I'm aspiring to.

There is a romance with the F product as a poster already pointed out. It's the pinnacle of commercial passenger air travel, to take it away with the clinical business product which was initially designed for people who need to turn up to their destination fresh and ready for work is a sad reflection on the times. There is a need for opulence sometimes...

 

[Sprucegoose]

All i have to say on this matter is that I'm sad that they're taking F away. It is something that I'm aspiring to.

There is a romance with the F product as a poster already pointed out. It's the pinnacle of commercial passenger air travel, to take it away with the clinical business product which was initially designed for people who need to turn up to their destination fresh and ready for work is a sad reflection on the times. There is a need for opulence sometimes...

QF is not the best F airline IMHO.

There are other choices out of OZ on OWE.

Not all routes are affected but the FLOUNGE may be??

 

[anat0l]

All i have to say on this matter is that I'm sad that they're taking F away. It is something that I'm aspiring to.

You'll still have F on the LHR and LAX routes (except MEL-HKG-LHR). They will be all A380 operated soon enough, so keep plugging for that F seat.

QF is not the best F airline IMHO.

There are other choices out of OZ on OWE.

QF F isn't the best out there, but I still like it.

Compared to the other oneworld options ex-AU with F, BA is slightly behind QF IMO (service is the breaker, and QF A380 F > BA new F, although BA F kits are slightly > QF F kits). Too bad CX have stopped F-equipped aircraft services to Australia.

Then there are all the non-oneworld services ex-AU that have F on them. Of course, that doesn't help if you are building a oneworld FFP balance. But F is going to be here for a while, just that market forces are gradually making it more and more difficult to get at. The Middle Eastern airlines are probably going to be the last ones to ever eliminate F, given that it is a cultural thing as well as them being the most financially resilient.

 

[MrJetset]

You'll still have F on the LHR and LAX routes (except MEL-HKG-LHR). They will be all A380 operated soon enough, so keep plugging for that F seat.



QF F isn't the best out there, but I still like it.

Compared to the other oneworld options ex-AU with F, BA is slightly behind QF IMO (service is the breaker, and QF A380 F > BA new F, although BA F kits are slightly > QF F kits). Too bad CX have stopped F-equipped aircraft services to Australia.

Then there are all the non-oneworld services ex-AU that have F on them. Of course, that doesn't help if you are building a oneworld FFP balance. But F is going to be here for a while, just that market forces are gradually making it more and more difficult to get at. The Middle Eastern airlines are probably going to be the last ones to ever eliminate F, given that it is a cultural thing as well as them being the most financially resilient.

Remember that BA is introducing Next Generation First on the 747s and 777s, which is far superior to the 20 year old F cabins on the QF747s. I have always thought that the food on BA is inferior to QF, however I have had great experiences with crew.

 

[anat0l]

Remember that BA is introducing Next Generation First on the 747s and 777s, which is far superior to the 20 year old F cabins on the QF747s. I have always thought that the food on BA is inferior to QF, however I have had great experiences with crew.

The only reason they are 'far superior' is because it is new product, i.e. new equipment, new smell, new fabric, new lights, etc. etc. It definitely looks better than QF 747s, but age is the obvious difference here.

BA F really looks like a nice lounge in the sky, and we all know lounges are open settings, not closed ones. I'd still be taking QF A380 F over new BA F, though. And yes, like you said, food is better on QF F, and the difference there is not subtle at all.

 

[serfty]

Remember that BA is introducing Next Generation First on the 747s and 777s, which is far superior to the 20 year old F cabins on the QF747s. I have always thought that the food on BA is inferior to QF, however I have had great experiences with crew.

In any case, if the plans Qantas announced that generated this thread are fully enacted, the only First Class on Qantas flights will be on Selected 388 services - none on 744's.

 

[MrJetset]

In any case, if the plans Qantas announced that generated this thread are fully enacted, the only First Class on Qantas flights will be on Selected 388 services - none on 744's.

So what will happen to SYD-LHR via BKK? It will be serviced by a 744 without F or is the plan for BKK to receive A388s? I recall QF saying that LAX and LHR will continue to have F.

 

[anat0l]

So what will happen to SYD-LHR via BKK? It will be serviced by a 744 without F or is the plan for BKK to receive A388s? I recall QF saying that LAX and LHR will continue to have F.

I only recall QF "guaranteeing" to retain F on the LHR sectors that go via SIN. The other LHR routes are not definite.

Perhaps they will cycle the F on the other routes (QF1 / QF2 and QF29 / QF30) on a seasonal basis, akin to what was done on QF29 / QF30 in past years.

 

[serfty]

So what will happen to SYD-LHR via BKK? It will be serviced by a 744 without F or is the plan for BKK to receive A388s? I recall QF saying that LAX and LHR will continue to have F.

Read this thread, post #6 is a indicator.

 

[Flying Fox]

Whilst QF F may not be number one, I have enjoyed my experiences with it and will be sad when it goes from the 744s. I had a fab time!

Yet to try the A380. One day....

 

[MrJetset]

Read this thread, post #6 is a indicator.

Well I hope F is still there for QF1 and QF2 in August next year. What's the process if you have award bookings and the cabin in removed? Will QF change you to QF31 and 32 without penalty, or do they simply refund the points? Is it considered an involuntary downgrade?

 

[anat0l]

Well I hope F is still there for QF1 and QF2 in August next year. What's the process if you have award bookings and the cabin in removed? Will QF change you to QF31 and 32 without penalty, or do they simply refund the points? Is it considered an involuntary downgrade?

When I asked about this (I framed it as a "suppose" question, not that it would happen, really ), they said I would be entitled to a refund of sorts. I can't remember how this refund is paid; I assume it would be the points difference between F and J.

In reality, if it did come to that, if you are a WP I don't think it would be out of this world to ask whether you can easily reroute via SIN (i.e. guaranteed F service).

 

[bossreggie]

I think the QANTAS F hard product on the 744's is pretty rubbish really. I have had few recent flights and IMHO the cabin is tired and dated. (as were the cabin crew)

I am a loyal QANTAS customer, however if I am spending around $14K return for myself and +1 to go to Bangkok several times a year then I am now going to try other carriers. I don't think the actual product delivered warrants a 300% premium over Deathstar *Class.

I think that from now on I will only fly QANTAS med - long haul on the A380.

I am considering Etihad for our next trip to Europe now as they have some F specials at around $21k return for both of us.