AFF Point Valuations

[sydney slug]

This would have taken an enormous amount of work. Well done.

It's interesting to compare to equivalent projects in the US: see, eg, Reasonable Redemption Values (RRVs).

It's striking that, as you note, this chart doesn't include Qantas' upcoming devaluation, which will drop their value. With that next drop, Qantas points will start to get very close to Classic Plus (1.5c/pt in premium cabins). As I've mentioned elsewhere, it means Qantas has solved the award availability problem — by devaluing points so much that Classic Plus basically reflects what they're worth!

At some point surely businesses begin to ask their shoppers whether they want these less and less useful qantas points or 1% off their bill?

 

[Waddygib]

[points earned when booking with cash] was not part of the calculations

Curious why not? This would increase the "effective" cost of the flight (in points) y 10-20% would it not? Seems very material especially in a world of 2% surcharges.

 

[Kremmen]

We've just updated our Point Valuations for both airline and credit card points.

You've added Alaska Atmos. Why not add American AAdvantage? That's much bigger and generally better value than Atmos. Also it can combine multiple OW carriers in a booking, while Atmos is still a mess in that regard.

 

[burmans]

You've added Alaska Atmos. Why not add American AAdvantage? That's much bigger and generally better value than Atmos. Also it can combine multiple OW carriers in a booking, while Atmos is still a mess in that regard.

Having quite a few Aadvantage points myself I agree but hard to earn them these days in Oz. Whereas Alaska is quite easy.

 

[flyguy77]

I still don't understand how you can do all this analysis and with a straight face say a Qantas Point is more valuable than a Krisflyer Mile...

 

[aikman]

The only way I can make peace with these valuations is to distinguish them from market value.

AFF might value them at X cents but it doesn't mean that is what you get in the real/actual market when it comes time to earn/redeem.

 

[PrueF]

Why is much of the text in this article in such a pale blue font that it is impossible to read? I don't know if it's relevant, but I'm using a Firefox browser.

 

[Mattg]

Why is much of the text in this article in such a pale blue font that it is impossible to read? I don't know if it's relevant, but I'm using a Firefox browser.

I'm not seeing this - any chance you could post a screenshot please of an example?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

The only way I can make peace with these valuations is to distinguish them from market value.

AFF might value them at X cents but it doesn't mean that is what you get in the real/actual market when it comes time to earn/redeem.

I guess it comes down to the minimum value you should be getting for your points. If it costs your 1c to get them, but you’re redeeming for .5c, that could be a problem.

My issue is with the determination of ‘value’.

How many people in the points-chasing game would realistically spend $11,000 on a return to London for Qantas or Singapore Airlines business class. Or $22k for a couple?

So valuing an award against the $11k seems unrealistic. Most people wouod see the alternative on Cathay/JAL/Thai for $7k and buy that instead. So the $11k QF fare really needs to be adjusted to $7k - what most people would reasonably buy - and value on that basis.

I value my awards against aeroplan. That prices SE Asia at AUD1800 return, NE Asia and India at $2400 return, and Europe at $4400 return. It doesn’t matter how expensive the QF business class ticket retails for, the max I can value it as is $4400, because that’s the most amount of money I’m saving.

I still don't understand how you can do all this analysis and with a straight face say a Qantas Point is more valuable than a Krisflyer Mile...

Because you can use one of them?

 

[PrueF]

I'm not seeing this - any chance you could post a screenshot please of an example?

This article is just an example. They all have this same issue.

 

[burmans]

Because you can use one of them?

From memory Matt stated somewhere above it’s because QF was easier to use, not sure I agree with this logic. As far as ease of use, while I do understand in recent times KF points have been harder to use, in general over the last many years KF have been both easier and much cheaper to use,

 

[MEL_Traveller]

From memory Matt stated somewhere above it’s because QF was easier to use, not sure I agree with this logic. As far as ease of use, while I do understand in recent times KF points have been harder to use, in general over the last many years KF have been both easier and much cheaper to use,

I have found star alliance partner awards on Aeroplan, and also VA awards on the velocity site - all ‘lowest’ awards - and they simply haven’t been available via SQ

I think Qantas points are far more readily usable for an Australian resident than say SQ’s.

SQ’s are great if you want to redeem on SQ metal. But for others, or for things like being able to access domestic awards?

 

[aleadoux]

This article is just an example. They all have this same issue.

View attachment 485758

HI @PrueF ,
I work with Matt and will help you with this issue.
I am unable to replicate the link colour issue on Firefox (both Mac and PC).
Are you able to advise me on which version of Firefox you are using? I am using the latest version which is 146.
Adam.

 

[burmans]

SQ’s are great if you want to redeem on SQ metal. But for others, or for things like being able to access domestic awards?

Horses for courses I guess, I do have plenty of QF and VA points so can use these for domestic travel but suspect I’m far from alone on this forum in that international business class ranks far higher in value and interest than domestic travel. And SQ works better for that than QF.

 

[PrueF]

Thank you Adam,

HI @PrueF ,
I work with Matt and will help you with this issue.
I am unable to replicate the link colour issue on Firefox (both Mac and PC).
Are you able to advise me on which version of Firefox you are using? I am using the latest version which is 146.
Adam.

I am using Firefox 115.30.0esr (32-bit) on a PC on Windows 8.1.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Horses for courses I guess, I do have plenty of QF and VA points so can use these for domestic travel but suspect I’m far from alone on this forum in that international business class ranks far higher in value and interest than domestic travel. And SQ works better for that than QF.

Agree. Comes down to personal travel plans and how people measure ‘value’.

I fly domestic business class, so points are easy to redeem. The money saved goes into an FF program with good overseas availability and good redemption rates.

I don’t ‘value’ international airfares at retail price, because that’s never what I’d pay when there’s a hefty ‘Australia tax’. The most I value SQ to europe for example would be $4400 return… not the $8k-$10k asking price. (Same for QF or any other airline.)

 

[aleadoux]

Thank you Adam,

I am using Firefox 115.30.0esr (32-bit) on a PC on Windows 8.1.

Hi @PrueF ,
Ok, thanks for that info - very useful.

I suspect that older software is the culprit here.

Firefox 115 was released 2.5 years ago (July, 2023). There has been over 30 updates to Firefox since then. You are using the ESR (Extended Support Release). Mozilla has extended support for this legacy ESR branch beyond its original end-of-life schedule, but ESR support will end in March 2026.

Additionally Windows 8 is no longer offically supported by Microsoft, with support being dropped in Jan 2023.

I would normally recomend updating your Firefox, but there is an issue here as Firefox 115 ESR is the latest version you can install on Windows 8.1. You will have similar issues with Chrome on Windows 8.1, but it may work better?

The global stats on web browser usage indicate that Firefox 115 only makes up 0.15% of all web traffic. It becomes difficult and probematic for us to provide 100% compatability with unsupported browsers

It is important to keep your software up to date for both compatabily with modern web standards, and your online security. But Windows 8.1 is your limiting factor here, and until you upgrade I would expect that you will see more issues with a range of sites over time.

Let me know how you go trying Chrome - hopefully that will work better for you until you can upgrade your Windows OS.

Adam.

 

[PrueF]

Than

Hi @PrueF ,
Ok, thanks for that info - very useful.

I suspect that older software is the culprit here.

Firefox 115 was released 2.5 years ago (July, 2023). There has been over 30 updates to Firefox since then. You are using the ESR (Extended Support Release). Mozilla has extended support for this legacy ESR branch beyond its original end-of-life schedule, but ESR support will end in March 2026.

Additionally Windows 8 is no longer offically supported by Microsoft, with support being dropped in Jan 2023.

I would normally recomend updating your Firefox, but there is an issue here as Firefox 115 ESR is the latest version you can install on Windows 8.1. You will have similar issues with Chrome on Windows 8.1, but it may work better?

The global stats on web browser usage indicate that Firefox 115 only makes up 0.15% of all web traffic. It becomes difficult and probematic for us to provide 100% compatability with unsupported browsers

It is important to keep your software up to date for both compatabily with modern web standards, and your online security. But Windows 8.1 is your limiting factor here, and until you upgrade I would expect that you will see more issues with a range of sites over time.

Let me know how you go trying Chrome - hopefully that will work better for you until you can upgrade your Windows OS.

Adam.

Thank you Adam.