Western Sydney Airport (WSI) Discussion

[Beano]

Agreed, but the expectation that there’s going to be a fully fledged array of hotels and a fully fledged Metro line on opening, when passenger flights will not be numerous is unrealistic.

I remember Narita even a few years after it opened as an instant major airport. Hotels were a bit of a hike and I don’t think the train right through to Tokyo was developed until, what, decades later?

I’m happy to accept that development around the airport will proceed with the airport's own growth.

I suppose we have to consider that the train didn't go through SYD int and dom until 2000!

 

[RooFlyer]

I suppose we have to consider that the train didn't go through SYD int and dom until 2000!

and it needed the Olympics for that.

 

[elanshin]

I think i find it amusing even with the delayed Metro start WSI will have an air rail link before MEL.

 

[kookaburra75]

Agreed, but the expectation that there’s going to be a fully fledged array of hotels and a fully fledged Metro line on opening, when passenger flights will not be numerous is unrealistic.

I remember Narita even a few years after it opened as an instant major airport. Hotels were a bit of a hike and I don’t think the train right through to Tokyo was developed until, what, decades later?

I’m happy to accept that development around the airport will proceed with the airport's own growth.

Being of a certain age, I remember when Tullamarine opened and all the flights international and domestic, shifted from Essendon. It was the same discussion back then, about who would trek out all the way to Tullamarine.

Doing a lot of business in Western Sydney, with clients spread from Parramatta to Richmond, Penrith and up in the Blue Mountains, if they can set up a CBR-WSI flight, I would certainly use it. It would save the hour plus drive from SYD if I flew in.

 

[Aeryn]

Being of a certain age, I remember when Tullamarine opened and all the flights international and domestic, shifted from Essendon. It was the same discussion back then, about who would trek out all the way to Tullamarine.

The difference is that when that happened there was no other alternative. Also Essendon is less than 6km from Tullamarine, not at all comparable with WSI being 50km from SYD.

In this case SYD isn't going anywhere so those who have convenient access to SYD will see no benefit in schlepping all the way out to WSI.

 

[SYD]

In this case SYD isn't going anywhere so those who have convenient access to SYD will see no benefit in schlepping all the way out to WSI.

We’re actually hoping for great things for SYD (and WSI), as WSI takes all the dedicated freight ops (that will presumably allow further expansion of T1), as well as some of the LCC stuff.

Even better if the T2/T3 precincts opens up for international ops so QF can consolidate international and domestic ops along side OW partners (and the rest stay/shift to T1). Removing the T1<->T2/3 transfer would be a very good thing.

 

[elanshin]

The difference is that when that happened there was no other alternative. Also Essendon is less than 6km from Tullamarine, not at all comparable with WSI being 50km from SYD.

In this case SYD isn't going anywhere so those who have convenient access to SYD will see no benefit in schlepping all the way out to WSI.

I think there's a lot of AFF bias in general here skewing around for WSI.

For many especially those that are likely 30+ there's higher odds of living closer to the city as well having the income to be able to choose what to fly (airline wise). One thing I can see WSI getting is more LCC moving over (whether it's slots availability or costs) and despite everything, a lot of people do go get inconvenieced to book LCCs. You can probably ask many younger travellers if they've flown Jetstar or other LCCs overseas (especially on their first overseas trip they paid themselves) and theres a good chance the answer is yes. (Myself included).
I've taken the local line from NRT back to Tokyo (which adds about 1h of travel time) to save ~2000 yen before. Heck I've gotten off at Mascot and taken a bus to SYD more time than I care to admit.

People will use WSI if the flights are there and the price is right.

 

[kookaburra75]

The difference is that when that happened there was no other alternative. Also Essendon is less than 6km from Tullamarine, not at all comparable with WSI being 50km from SYD.

In this case SYD isn't going anywhere so those who have convenient access to SYD will see no benefit in schlepping all the way out to WSI.

I agree - although with inflation, 6km back then is now worth 50km today.

I think there's a lot of AFF bias in general here skewing around for WSI.
People will use WSI if the flights are there and the price is right.

Not sure I would agree with your first point. It's not a "one or the other" type equation - it will be what people's travel patterns and requirements are. And you're right, if it fits people time/$ budgets then it will work for them.

 

[Beano]

The issue woukd be if there is enough business in the WSI to merit airlines using it and whether any reduced flight costs plus time and cost to travel to Sydney merit passengers using WSI.
PS MEL is nominally about 30 minutes by car from the CBD.

 

[SYD]

The issue woukd be if there is enough business in the WSI to merit airlines using it and whether any reduced flight costs plus time and cost to travel to Sydney merit passengers using WSI.

There will be.

PS MEL is nominally about 30 minutes by car from the CBD.

LGW is about 1 1/2 hrs from central London v 1hr to LHR - assuming one’s foolish enough to go by road.

 

[http_x92]

For a Liverpool resident WSI would be closer (probably a 15 minute drive after the M12 opens), but SYD isnt too bad either (25-30 minutes or so). Don't mind either way, wonder what the fares would be like to start off with on the Triangle routes.

Also would be interested to see what are the room rates for the Courtyard to start off with - for instance Moxy Sydney is around $150-200 p/n. Should be a bit on the low side at first.

 

[JU581]

The Government must urgently designate the airport as a secondary airport because non “open skies” countries’ airlines will not fly there if they have a choice between it and SYD. Having a single terminal and no curfew would mean it would be a better travel experience for passengers switching from domestic to international and vice versa unlike SYD and BNE.

 

[Beano]

There will be.

LGW is about 1 1/2 hrs from central London v 1hr to LHR - assuming one’s foolish enough to go by road.

no-one would. even LGW is 30 minutes from the CBD by public transport. This is a different scenario. Stansted and Luton are still closer to London than WSI to Sydney.

 

[Beano]

I

The Government must urgently designate the airport as a secondary airport because non “open skies” countries’ airlines will not fly there if they have a choice between it and SYD. Having a single terminal and no curfew would mean it would be a better travel experience for passengers switching from domestic to international and vice versa unlike SYD and BNE.

I would agree about Int to Dom transfer. I prefer to go to MEL for transfer from WLG if travelling west or to DRW.

 

[SYD]

I would agree about Int to Dom transfer. I prefer to go to MEL for transfer from WLG if travelling west or to DRW.

As mentioned earlier, QF have been proposing for years to consolidate their ops at SYD T2/T3 to remove the Dom/Int “transfer” bunfight. The SYD owners have pushed back but might rethink….

 

[JU581]

And Virgin fought tooth and nail to stop them because they were meant to move to T1 - which they argued would make them uncompetitive

 

[SYD]

And Virgin fought tooth and nail to stop them because they were meant to move to T1 - which they argued would make them uncompetitive

Despite their Federated partners all being there….

Maybe they could take over the existing QF F lounge as the VA lounge…

 

[elanshin]

The Government must urgently designate the airport as a secondary airport because non “open skies” countries’ airlines will not fly there if they have a choice between it and SYD. Having a single terminal and no curfew would mean it would be a better travel experience for passengers switching from domestic to international and vice versa unlike SYD and BNE.

I dont see any other airline besides QR that this would apply to right now and QR's gotten around all the limitation problems by buying VA (they doubled their capacity basically).

 

[moa999]

I'd also add whilst I expect there to initially be more LCC flights at WSI airport, this isn't an LCC terminal.

It's not a basic shed, it's first class expensive facilities and aerobridges and after any initial subsidies run out think costs for the airlines will be similar to SYD.

Airline will fly to WSI for the ability to undertake back of clock ops in the curfew, and because flying to/ from there is more attractive for a portion of Sydney and NSW passengers (taxi fare, time, maybe parking fees) than SYD.

 

[SYD]

I dont see any other airline besides QR that this would apply to right now and QR's gotten around all the limitation problems by buying VA (they doubled their capacity basically).

Not totally sure but starters would be SQ (and Scoot), CX, EK, DL, PR, TK…?

QR might consider it despite the VA shotgun.