Qantas passengers forced to sleep on floor of DFW

[jpp42]

From the travellers' psyche yes, but you may need to explain to me why shareholders would be laughing?

In this particular example, it demonstrates that Qantas is minimising its cost and therefore maximising profits, by providing accommodation to the fewest possible passengers. More generally, they are operating leanly with a large number of similar cost-saving measures which don't seem to impact loyalty, as Qantas passengers continue to choose them over other airlines in droves. This demonstrates both short term results and long-term value to shareholders.

 

[YesYouCanCanCan]

As an aside, where can I actually write a complaint letter to Qantas?
Looking at their webpage... it doesn't seem clear.

Qantas has offered scant apology, or rectification to me about this. The best I've had was "Please dont be mean to our staff about it" or similar on the loudspeakers.

 

[AIRwin]

As an aside, where can I actually write a complaint letter to Qantas?
Looking at their webpage... it doesn't seem clear.

Ironically under Help and Support --> Customer Care Form

https://help.qantas.com/support/s/

 

[Quickstatus]

there clearly wouldn't be enough rest for the original crew with this timing

I think they were planning on getting out of DFW in the morning and arriving prior to Sydney Curfew.
The crew would have been ok to fly out at the original departure time.

Attempts to rebook the passenger onto another suitable flight by the following hierarchy:

Unlikely that any of that would have helped because any other available flight would have had to connect the passengers through LAX/SFO the next morning and departures from LAX to SYD are in the evenings. At the earliest they may have got flights out of LAX the next evening which is when QF8D eventually departed. Getting passengers home any earlier would not have been possible.

The assumption seemed to be that, if you didn't wait around for the airline-organised accommodation, you had abandoned your ticket.

Not my experience re the 2 QF flights from USA-SYD from the west coast.
Didnt wait for airline organised accom and was never assumed to have cancelled my ticket

 

[Quickstatus]

Information suggesting that it was 4am by the time luggage was retrieved.
I would have still booked a hotel room even if 9am was new check-in opening time. But thats me. Others would disagree

 

[Captain Halliday]

"Alanised" - should join the lexicon as a synonym for 'enhanced'.

Dibs on Alananced

Dejoyce (verb): Leaving one in a state of disappointment or dismay. The opposite of rejoice.

 

[levelnine]

Not my experience re the 2 QF flights from USA-SYD from the west coast.

FYI, that will likely end quite poorly one day unless you are P1. If you leave the Qantas assigned hotel, the only way of getting in touch is via SMS. It is well known that Qantas' SMS systems for letting passengers know of new flight details is haphazard at best. On my last QF IRROPs of 12+ hours, I was receiving SMS updates while my partner on a separate booking, but same flights, received nothing despite QF having their phone number. Good luck getting status updates from a Manilla call agent.

 

[Quickstatus]

will likely end quite poorly one day

The other part of my story was that QF were telling their J passengers (us) to book our own accom if we wanted.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

In this particular example, it demonstrates that Qantas is minimising its cost and therefore maximising profits, by providing accommodation to the fewest possible passengers. More generally, they are operating leanly with a large number of similar cost-saving measures which don't seem to impact loyalty, as Qantas passengers continue to choose them over other airlines in droves. This demonstrates both short term results and long-term value to shareholders.

An EU261 consumer protection scheme would negate any cost savings. The airline would be required to provide compensation as well as accommodation and meals. Mechanical issues very rarely fall within the ‘extraordinary’ exception… they are part and parcel of normal airline operations.

 

[ozgod]

I flew Cathay Pacific once from JFK to Hong Kong and then on to Singapore. That flight was delayed by 4 hours as we arrived at midnight so I missed my connection to Singapore and had to be rebooked on a morning flight. On arrival in Hong Kong Cathay had organised hotel and meal vouchers.

On another flight, this time American from Boston to LAX then Qantas from LAX to Sydney, the American flight was late coming into LAX and we missed our connection into Sydney and had to be rebooked the next day. American organised hotel vouchers for our overnight in LA.

I'm amazed that Qantas doesn't have a similar process in place. When issues like this happen they should trigger those plans to be put in place. Probably all the staff cuts they made, or maybe it's cheaper for them to get customers to pay up front and then they can take 6 mths to reimburse them. I'm sure some of their beancounters got promoted for that, "increasing shareholder value".

 

[BAM1748]

I flew Cathay Pacific once from JFK to Hong Kong and then on to Singapore. That flight was delayed by 4 hours as we arrived at midnight so I missed my connection to Singapore and had to be rebooked on a morning flight. On arrival in Hong Kong Cathay had organised hotel and meal vouchers.

On another flight, this time American from Boston to LAX then Qantas from LAX to Sydney, the American flight was late coming into LAX and we missed our connection into Sydney and had to be rebooked the next day. American organised hotel vouchers for our overnight in LA.

I'm amazed that Qantas doesn't have a similar process in place. When issues like this happen they should trigger those plans to be put in place. Probably all the staff cuts they made, or maybe it's cheaper for them to get customers to pay up front and then they can take 6 mths to reimburse them. I'm sure some of their beancounters got promoted for that, "increasing shareholder value".

What I would point out in your two examples is you are already en route and everyone knows what is happening, late plane and when the next connecting services are. In your examples even staff ticketed passengers are looked after with hotels.

In this case an aircraft fault has kept it on the ground, people trying to correct the fault without knowing if or when they could depart, but everyone ran out of time. The system failed this time in communicating the correct info which I'm sure QF will look at in a effort to avoid again.

Amazingly for your info, QF does have a system of putting people into hotels, bringing in replacement aircraft, and generally looking after people as best as can be expected. It failed this time, but that doesn't stop people being responsible for themselves for several hours as the world is not perfect.

As a side note, not just about this incident, what I've noticed over time is passengers always play the victim (yep and sometimes they are, however) and someone else should always immediately look after them because it's not their fault. In the real world life doesn't work that way and can be unfair so be prepared as the old motto goes.

 

[DC3]

QF marketing spin will be in overdrive following the bad publicity of a cancelled flight and no arrangements made to accommodate apparently hundreds of passengers …

In 2016 when my AA flight ORD-DFW was cancelled late at night due to weather, hundreds of “cots” (camp stretchers) were set up in part of the terminal for desperate pax to get some sort of basic rest until morning. Not sure if that still happens.

 

[Zanzara]

I flew Cathay Pacific once from JFK to Hong Kong and then on to Singapore. That flight was delayed by 4 hours as we arrived at midnight so I missed my connection to Singapore and had to be rebooked on a morning flight. On arrival in Hong Kong Cathay had organised hotel and meal vouchers.

On another flight, this time American from Boston to LAX then Qantas from LAX to Sydney, the American flight was late coming into LAX and we missed our connection into Sydney and had to be rebooked the next day. American organised hotel vouchers for our overnight in LA.

I'm amazed that Qantas doesn't have a similar process in place. When issues like this happen they should trigger those plans to be put in place. Probably all the staff cuts they made, or maybe it's cheaper for them to get customers to pay up front and then they can take 6 mths to reimburse them. I'm sure some of their beancounters got promoted for that, "increasing shareholder value".

I think that the test of a well managed airline are their contingency arrangements and how they respond to passengers, particularly when things go wrong. Clearly, some airlines are still pretty efficient. Evidence would appear that, in order to maximise profits, with the exception of their marketing department, QF these days, are run on the whiff of an oily rag. Staff motivation, across multiple areas doesn’t appear to be great either.

Still, there are some that seem to still love them and report excellent experience and will defend appalling customer service with all sorts of justification, come what may. We all have a choice.

Excuse my cynicism, but I guess it’s much cheaper to palm the responsibility for finding accommodation onto passengers that are stranded away from home, make it difficult to claim and on top of that cap the amount they can claim anyway.

 

[TheRealTMA]

I think that the test of a well managed airline are their contingency arrangements and how they respond to passengers, particularly when things go wrong. Clearly, some airlines are still pretty efficient. Evidence would appear that, in order to maximise profits, with the exception of their marketing department, QF these days, are run on the whiff of an oily rag. Staff motivation, across multiple areas doesn’t appear to be great either.

Still, there are some that seem to still love them and report excellent experience and will defend appalling customer service with all sorts of justification, come what may. We all have a choice.

Excuse my cynicism, but I guess it’s much cheaper to palm the responsibility for finding accommodation onto passengers that are stranded away from home, make it difficult to claim and on top of that cap the amount they can claim anyway.

Ah, but unfortunately it’s the Australian way in many things. Service to the customer is not a National trait.

 

[drron]

A little while ago we had AA F awards NRT-DFW-LGA.
There was a blizzard at DFW so our incoming plane was caught at DFW. We got to NRT as usual about 3 hours before departure and noticed the board showing the DFW flight was cancelled. Only 1 other pax in front of us. As soon as I got to the counter the agent said "Oh drron your flight has been cancelled but here are your boarding passes for the Chicago flight and then the onward flight to La Guardia.
Doesn't sound like the passengers arriving in SYD from DFW had such service.

 

[Quickstatus]

about 3 hours before departure

Is that an early check in or not. Mr Joyce says passengers bad for checking in early

 

[Quickstatus]

All the stories above compared experience at one airline in 2022 with experiences in prior years.
I think the travel environment has changed so comparability is low. Thats why I am not flying internationally. Lots of cobwebs still.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

As a side note, not just about this incident, what I've noticed over time is passengers always play the victim (yep and sometimes they are, however) and someone else should always immediately look after them because it's not their fault. In the real world life doesn't work that way and can be unfair so be prepared as the old motto goes.

And in most cases it’s entirely justified!

Airlines lie. (perhaps with the exception of the Japanese carriers!)

And they’re not transparent.

The airlines hold all the information and they rarely share it. So passengers are often kept in the dark and outcomes almost never favour the passenger.

So yeah… it’s never a cooperative environment or equal playing field, hence the victim status.

 

[Quickstatus]

someone else should always immediately look after them

I’ve always wondered. Airline ticket is an carriage agreement from A to B within specified time period. Disclaimers in ticket conditions mean the airline undertakes to use “best effort” to get passenger from A to B.

Why is there a requirement for an airline to pay for accom or meals outside of legal requirements like EU261. I can understand married multisector flights that an liability can exist within the segments. But should a flight that is bookended at A and B carry such liability

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I’ve always wondered. Airline ticket is an carriage agreement from A to B within specified time period. Disclaimers in ticket conditions mean the airline undertakes to use “best effort” to get passenger from A to B.

Why is there a requirement for an airline to pay for accom or meals outside of legal requirements like EU261. I can understand married multisector flights that an liability can exist within the segments. But should a flight that is bookended at A and B carry such liability

many airline contracts of carriage state they will provide meals or accommodation if there’s a delay within their control. For delays outside their control, such as weather, meals and accommodation are not normally provided (unless specified by consumer protection).

The provisions are usually graduated, and only kick in after a set number of hours.

I think the origins are back in the Warsaw Convention which sets out liability for delays.