HNL Hurricane Lane - bloody Qantas

[drron]

There were obviously empty seats as the OP was asked to pay an $800 change fee.
At that time other airlines were already waiving change fees.
So if the hurricane did turn up as forecast those airlines would have less pax to rebook.Good business I think.

 

[Pushka]

There were obviously empty seats as the OP was asked to pay an $800 change fee.
At that time other airlines were already waiving change fees.
So if the hurricane did turn up as forecast those airlines would have less pax to rebook.Good business I think.

Ok. And that is in their T&Cs as a change penalty because at that time of request Qantas had not rescheduled any flights. That was their business decision, and what other airlines were doing is irrelevant I think.

 

[drron]

So if the hurricane arrived as predicted you would be happy to be a pax on the flight that then happened to be cancelled and all pax now had to be rebooked and obviously some would probably have to wait a few days?
Allowing the changes a couple of days ahead when seats were available would not have adversely affected QF's bottom line and resulted in less mayhem with the cancelled flight.
QF just got lucky despite their lack of foresight.One reason why I dont use QFI.

 

[kamchatsky]

So if the hurricane arrived as predicted you would be happy to be a pax on the flight that then happened to be cancelled and all pax now had to be rebooked and obviously some would probably have to wait a few days?
Allowing the changes a couple of days ahead when seats were available would not have adversely affected QF's bottom line and resulted in less mayhem with the cancelled flight.
QF just got lucky despite their lack of foresight.One reason why I dont use QFI.

I think for AUS-HNL direct route there are not many options. It is either QF/JQ or HA. People would still flock to QF because of OW status.

 

[juddles]

....
At that time other airlines were already waiving change fees....

Not "other airlines" but rather "some american airlines"

So if the hurricane arrived as predicted .....Allowing the changes a couple of days ahead when seats were available would not have adversely affected QF's bottom line ....QF just got lucky despite their lack of foresight.....

Hey there Drron

the fact that US airlines offered certain tolerances was in step with Trump doing all sorts of fancy chest-beating in facing the impending calamity. Great for publicity.

"so if" .... "if" ?? in my understanding the hurricane was never actually predicted to "arrive" - it was predicted (as it actually happened) to pass to the south and head west. The prediction was just high winds and heavy rainfall.

"allowing the changes would not have adversely affected QF's bottom line" ? how do we know that? do we understand the effect of such changes? Amongst all the airlines of the world, only some allow pax of high status to "fly forward" ie get on an earlier empty seat. Why is that? Surely "common-sense" would say that if there are empty seats, anyone should be able to fly on the earlier flight..... It just is not that way.

Lastly, to re-earn my sometimes badge of QF-fanboi, "QF's "lack of foresight""?? On the contrary - it appears they could predict the hurricanes effect (or lack of) on flights far better than all the other airlines. Maybe they deserve recognition for this??

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Not "other airlines" but rather "some american airlines"



Hey there Drron

the fact that US airlines offered certain tolerances was in step with Trump doing all sorts of fancy chest-beating in facing the impending calamity. Great for publicity.

"so if" .... "if" ?? in my understanding the hurricane was never actually predicted to "arrive" - it was predicted (as it actually happened) to pass to the south and head west. The prediction was just high winds and heavy rainfall.

"allowing the changes would not have adversely affected QF's bottom line" ? how do we know that? do we understand the effect of such changes? Amongst all the airlines of the world, only some allow pax of high status to "fly forward" ie get on an earlier empty seat. Why is that? Surely "common-sense" would say that if there are empty seats, anyone should be able to fly on the earlier flight..... It just is not that way.

American carriers and at least one Japanese carrier. That we know of. Other carriers may have also joined in (as did QF eventually)>

The bottom line... here it comes down to the difference between voluntary and involuntary. IRROPS, or predicted IRROPS is an involuntary passenger change, just as it is involuntary for the airline. All major US carriers allows fly forwards or routing changes in the event of both actual and predicted IRROPS.

Fly forwards aren't usually allowed for voluntary changes because of revenue protection. Otherwise people would buy cheap fares and want to change to peak flights. Alternatively the airline may lose walk-up fares.

If the change is involuntary the same principles don't apply. There are empty seats, the fare has already been paid.

The 'what if' potential is not unique to hurricanes. We practice the same in Australia for bush fires. We know, through years of tragic experience, that it is safer to go well in advance and not wait and hope for the best (that the wind will change or the fire go out or whatever). So pre-planning to escape a predicted severe weather event (which by the news tonight has seen over one metre of rainfall, flash flooding, homes evacuated and landslides) is probably considered prudent rather than trying to scam the airlines out of change fees.

 

[drron]

Sorry juddles but I have already posted that Air NZ cancelled a HNL flight.Also reported that JAL allowed changes with no charge.As far as I am aware they are not "some american airlines"and I doubt that Trump had anything to do with their decisions.
Fly forward is irrelevant here.The reason for allowing changes in this situation is ameliorating the chaos if flights do get cancelled-that would dent the bottom line if it happened.
I doubt QF were better predictors of weather-the hurricane could just have easily changed course and hit Oahu directly.

 

[juddles]

Sorry juddles but I have already posted that Air NZ cancelled a HNL flight.Also reported that JAL allowed changes with no charge.As far as I am aware they are not "some american airlines"and I doubt that Trump had anything to do with their decisions.
Fly forward is irrelevant here.The reason for allowing changes in this situation is ameliorating the chaos if flights do get cancelled-that would dent the bottom line if it happened.
I doubt QF were better predictors of weather-the hurricane could just have easily changed course and hit Oahu directly.

Yes, but this opinion in this case is not even "hindsight" - on the contrary QF had it right, and it is just "but what if".

I am suddenly tired and don't even know why I am "fighting" this one. I am just glad that AFF member Popeye had a good outcome

 

[Pushka]

So if the hurricane arrived as predicted you would be happy to be a pax on the flight that then happened to be cancelled and all pax now had to be rebooked and obviously some would probably have to wait a few days?
Allowing the changes a couple of days ahead when seats were available would not have adversely affected QF's bottom line and resulted in less mayhem with the cancelled flight.
QF just got lucky despite their lack of foresight.One reason why I dont use QFI.

That’s exactly the position we were put in last November without it actualising. We could not change flights without a significant penalty for pre paid accommodation and flights. The volcano was imminent but not yet cancelling flights. So we had to go and risk being stuck there. We did not get stuck there but a week later, the volcano blew its ash and people were. That is the way Qantas works and it is also the way Insurance works. Until something actually happens, changes and cancellations are considered a preference and not a requirement.

And I’ll state it again, what other airlines choose to do is their choice and completely irrelevant until the airport closed. It didn’t.

 

[drron]

Firstly it is much easier to predict the timing of a hurricane Vs a Volcano but much easier to predict the site of the eruption vs exact track of a hurricane.Second DPS is closer than HNL with a few more flight options getting back home to Australia.
As I keep saying QF were lucky.It was possible it would have come closer to Oahu and QF would have had to cancel.I am sure some of the stories about how bad QF recovery was would have made it to AFF.
The other airlines were being careful,QF preferred to gamble.

 

[stm1sydney]

With QF it seems that the loyalty only goes one way .

Bingo.

 

[Popeye]

Firstly it is much easier to predict the timing of a hurricane Vs a Volcano but much easier to predict the site of the eruption vs exact track of a hurricane.Second DPS is closer than HNL with a few more flight options getting back home to Australia.
As I keep saying QF were lucky.It was possible it would have come closer to Oahu and QF would have had to cancel.I am sure some of the stories about how bad QF recovery was would have made it to AFF.
The other airlines were being careful,QF preferred to gamble.

Unlike QF of the past who were risk averse, no it seems yield and profit are more important

 

[JohnK]

Maybe they just didn’t get the chance to develop a protocol so ‘no waiver’ was given. Honestly based on my experiences I don’t this any of this is a Qantas issue until it became obvious that flights could not fly. And that didn’t happen anyways

It would have cost Qantas nothing to fill up a few empty seats. They chose not to do that and got away with it this time around.

Personally I would hate to be the one doing the requesting and then stuck there for 3-4 days or more waiting to get out.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Lastly, to re-earn my sometimes badge of QF-fanboi, "QF's "lack of foresight""?? On the contrary - it appears they could predict the hurricanes effect (or lack of) on flights far better than all the other airlines. Maybe they deserve recognition for this??

There was something at the back of my mind about this and then I remembered...

Looks like a waiver might be in place now

Options are available to Qantas customers holding a valid ticket issued on/before 23 August 2018 who are affected by Hurricane Lane for travel to/from Hawaii on/after 23 August 2018 and on/before 27 August 2018.

 

[serfty]

It is obvious from this episode that Qantas actuaries factor revenue from change fees into the bottom line for every booking - maybe expecting increased revenue from this source when a hurricane is approaching.

Perhaps the same actuaries were involved with this "gamble", likely factoring in the chances of any possible reduction in revenue from adverse publicity.

Goes back to Qantas desiring to providing a service in order to extract as much revenue as possible for such provision - like most companies really.

 

[Popeye]

Wow, my second post on this site and I am really inspired by the level of debate and discussion that ensued

Thanks to all of you it has made some interesting reading.

FYI, we got home a day early change fee free, enjoyed thoroughly our flight on the 744 in J wirh rhe A380 dreamtime seats which in my opinion sh.ts all over the battery hen arrangement on the A330 and soon to be the A380 .

That is i got ro sit next to my wife, could tall to jwr, hold her hand on take off(cant do this on the A330) and there was acres of leg room in front .... so sad to see the end of the 744. Beautiful aircraft...

Now sitting in the Pullmam international in CNS ...next leg of giving my wife a life trip

Cheers Popeye

 

[moa999]

Some serious negativity to Qantas here.

If you read the whole thread, Qantas introduced a fee waiver and Popeye was able to change their flight

They were just some time later than the US airlines in introducing the waiver, not exactly surprising for an outstation with only a limited schedule.

 

[mannej]

QF haven’t had the Dreamtime seats in its fleet since the last international configured 767 left the fleet.

 

[Popeye]

QF haven’t had the Dreamtime seats in its fleet since the last international configured 767 left the fleet.

OK , Whatever they are called the seats on the 744 and A380 J class as they are at present IMO are far superior to the battery hen arrangement on the A330 and I suspect the B789.

 

[trooper]

Good result mate...

But I don't understand why the original agent is still being called a dud when he was consulted BEFORE the waiver was issued (If Ive read this right)… The change was (was it not?) made AFTER issuance of said waiver...right? So BOTH agents .."Ron"..and whoever the second one was...BOTH operated within the rules in force AT THE TIME? One PRE waiver, and one POST.