Profiling through customs

[leadman]

A number of times I've passed through AU Customs and seen what i thought was a bit of profiling; once when standing next to lady of Asian appearance but the accent was better than mine, was questioned 3 separate times, but yesterday coming through felt it first hand.

I took my son on one half of my business trip through the States and TW and coming back through yesterday i was almost knocked over by the officer to get to him! At 25, with a beard and olive skin from his mothers side, when I went back to him the officer was not the most pleasant, and when we were asked were we related I replied with the first thing that came in my head "only by DNA".

Short but unpleasant especially in my own country. I thought they had almost everything on computer now so scanning the passport would give them the information they need or am i being too naive?

(Upshot of the trip was my son now has an appreciation of business travel and its nothing like a holiday which i have been telling him for years. It took him a week to get over jetlag and dragging to airports 4 - 5am in the morning. And where is my free time!)

 

[drron]

It happens everywhere unfortunately.
Arriving in LAX once again I noted that those with Chinese passports were basically the only ones being sent for secondary Customs screening.

 

[leadman]

Secondary customs screening I've seen many, many times, yesterday was a clear individual focus.

 

[Dannyism]

Hi. I had a parent that worked immigration at one of the three major international airports in Australia. So my opinion is based off of theirs.

Profiling is, does, will and always has happened. And it's a good thing.

Profiling entrants (which is done before they arrive because the airline provides the passport number of all arrivals or by what you look like), allows the border forces limited resources to target those who are statistically proven to be a higher risk of being illegals, not being honest with their visa, bringing in prohibited items, whatever.

The most common are people on student or tourist visas who do not have enough money to fund their trips and are clearly intending to work. Women from asian or eastern european countries who are actually coming here to work in prostitution.

Profiling is one of those things, like discrimination. Yes it can be done illegally. But there are perfectly reasonable times to discriminate or profile. eg. when I'm buying frozen fruit at the local supermarket. I discriminate against imported varieties because of potential food safety issues and buy the Australian or American products. That's not illegal or unethical.

PS. Funny story. Said parent once pulled aside Valentino Rossi for questioning once because he looked scruffy.

 

[Denali]

Saw a woman at lax get sent to secondary on what I feel was based on her race (traditional Indian clothing) and for her cart crossing the yellow line by 30cms-he didn't even speak to her.

He waved his hand until she stepped backwards behind the line then waved her forward like some despot waving for a maid, looked at her card and waved her to secondary with barely a word spoken for instruction.

 

[Boca68]

A number of times I've passed through AU Customs and seen what i thought was a bit of profiling; once when standing next to lady of Asian appearance but the accent was better than mine, was questioned 3 separate times, but yesterday coming through felt it first hand.

I took my son on one half of my business trip through the States and TW and coming back through yesterday i was almost knocked over by the officer to get to him! At 25, with a beard and olive skin from his mothers side, when I went back to him the officer was not the most pleasant, and when we were asked were we related I replied with the first thing that came in my head "only by DNA".

Short but unpleasant especially in my own country. I thought they had almost everything on computer now so scanning the passport would give them the information they need or am i being too naive?

(Upshot of the trip was my son now has an appreciation of business travel and its nothing like a holiday which i have been telling him for years. It took him a week to get over jetlag and dragging to airports 4 - 5am in the morning. And where is my free time!)

Ok, its never pleasant to be singled out, But I'm not quite sure what exactly happened that was profiling? Or distressed you other than your son being secondary screened? From your description, nothing unusual.

And as very white, Irish ancestary male in his late 40's , I have been secondary screened for no obvious reason on several occasions. Should I be insulted?

 

[juddles]

......Profiling is, does, will and always has happened. And it's a good thing.

Profiling entrants (which is done before they arrive because the airline provides the passport number of all arrivals or by what you look like), allows the border forces limited resources to target those who are statistically proven to be a higher risk of being illegals, not being honest with their visa, bringing in prohibited items, whatever......

First up, let me completely agree with Dannyism's post. The part I have quoted, is, IMHO, the essence of the matter.

But further to this, I also get sensitive when people start crying that someone was victimised or picked on due to their race, etc. People's perceptions can be way, way wrong.

In a previous life I was a police officer. There I suffered all this sort of nonsense. A particular night working was typical:

I was working late one night in Ipswich, Queensland. It was a fairly high crime area, and we tried to be proactive to see who was getting about in the wee hours. I was performing mobile intercepts - basically you pull over anyone moving at that time of night, and check them out. This was not some sort of hostile power trip thing - we just pulled cars over, did an RBT, and chatted to the person. (much as the airport screening does, you can learn so much more about a human being by talking to them and looking them in the eye than any online screening can)

After a few uneventful hours I had spoken to about twenty drivers. Some heading home late from work, a baker heading to start the day, etc etc. All very nice people, of many ethnic origins, and many a friendly word and laugh exchanged. Then car number 20 - the driver was a male aboriginal, with his whole family in the car. I had barely started approaching him when he "went off". He raved about being picked on due to his skin colour, that I was a racist etc *%$&!! Despite my protestations that he was just another random intercept, he continued enraged and we parted company. No doubt in his mind he was unfairly singled out due to his race. For Pete's sake, my eyes are not up to discerning these things at 100m at night when I started to flag him down!! But he no doubt would have told all his friends how he suffered racism. Sad and ironical because I take pride in my impartiality, especially in that job. And I also get from his side that life can be hard, and the embarrassment at being pulled over with his wife and kids present may have hurt him, even though there was no malice or evil involved.

As a person given the responsibility to protect the masses, you just cannot win. If you talk to a 20 year old muslim male, you will be accused of racism. If you talk to a 50-something white lady, they will get upset and express amazement and affront that you think they are a terrorist or criminal, and they will tell you to focus on the 20 year old muslim males.

Which is why I ended up, after doing what I thought was enough for the nation, to focus on other things.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

you may have stopped the aboriginal at random. But if this was the fifth night in a row he was stopped, supposedly ‘at random’, he might might be forgiven.

Discrimination isn’t always an isolated incident. Your traffic stop may have come at the end of a day where multiple instances of bias may have occurred.

Regarding customs profiling, i’d be interested to see statistics on the ‘success’ rate between profiled searches and completely random searches. And indeed how many searches are fruitless.

 

[Boca68]

you may have stopped the aboriginal at random. But if this was the fifth night in a row he was stopped, supposedly ‘at random’, he might might be forgiven.

Discrimination isn’t always an isolated incident. Your traffic stop may have come at the end of a day where multiple instances of bias may have occurred.

Regarding customs profiling, i’d be interested to see statistics on the ‘success’ rate between profiled searches and completely random searches. And indeed how many searches are fruitless.

Well, that may be true, but the OP made no suggestions of multiple occasions. Just the one.
And as far as I could tell , his son has slightly darker skin tone. Italian? Arabic? or possibly Tibetan?

Oh! and the beard. Yep! half the 20 something males in Australia have a beard nowadays. Not really buying it (the profiling bit)

 

[juddles]

you may have stopped the aboriginal at random. But if this was the fifth night in a row he was stopped, supposedly ‘at random’, he might might be forgiven.

Discrimination isn’t always an isolated incident. Your traffic stop may have come at the end of a day where multiple instances of bias may have occurred.

Regarding customs profiling, i’d be interested to see statistics on the ‘success’ rate between profiled searches and completely random searches. And indeed how many searches are fruitless.

Exactly - I explained how it was a random intercept, but you appear to be following the "bias" line, which I tried to explain was nonsense.

IMHO the success rate of using stereotypes is amazing. Do you want police/border patrol to intercept everyone and have a 0.1 % interception of a problem person, or use their professional experience and increase this to 10%?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Exactly - I explained how it was a random intercept, but you appear to be following the "bias" line, which I tried to explain was nonsense.

IMHO the success rate of using stereotypes is amazing. Do you want police/border patrol to intercept everyone and have a 0.1 % interception of a problem person, or use their professional experience and increase this to 10%?

What is gaining momentum these days is the outcome of actions, not the intent. And while many will argue that's political correctness going to far, it does have some merit.

It perhaps doesn't really matter if you explain that this was a random intercept. It perhaps doesn't matter if you are personally impartial. If this is an Aboriginal male who has endured numerous incidents a day of bias, the outcome for them is that this intercept feels like another example of them being targeted.

I would hope with things such as number plate recognition that even 'random' intercepts by police are managed so the same people aren't being repeatedly pulled over (unless there is good reason!)

I know customs and police believe profiling works. Otherwise they wouldn't do it. But I'd like to see that statistics on it. Is it actually a .1% vs 10% at a border crossing? Is a 90% failure rate to detect anything worth the angst, indignity and loss of time to those that are subject to a very invasive search? I don't know, but I'd like more information to be able to make an informed decision.

 

[Boca68]

What is gaining momentum these days is the outcome of actions, not the intent. And while many will argue that's political correctness going to far, it does have some merit.

It perhaps doesn't really matter if you explain that this was a random intercept. It perhaps doesn't matter if you are personally impartial. If this is an Aboriginal male who has endured numerous incidents a day of bias, the outcome for them is that this intercept feels like another example of them being targeted.

I would hope with things such as number plate recognition that even 'random' intercepts by police are managed so the same people aren't being repeatedly pulled over (unless there is good reason!)

I know customs and police believe profiling works. Otherwise they wouldn't do it. But I'd like to see that statistics on it. Is it actually a .1% vs 10% at a border crossing? Is a 90% failure rate to detect anything worth the angst, indignity and loss of time to those that are subject to a very invasive search? I don't know, but I'd like more information to be able to make an informed decision.

I do tend to agree with you in a general sense. But!

The but is the OPs post. Nothing to suggest racial profiling other than his 20 something son has a beard and olive skin.

Failing to see the ignominy here? Just an over reaction.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I do tend to agree with you in a general sense. But!

The but is the OPs post. Nothing to suggest racial profiling other than his 20 something son has a beard and olive skin.

Failing to see the ignominy here? Just an over reaction.

I admit I wasn't really thinking about the OP in my post. But yeah, just assuming a 25 year old with a beard is 'high risk' may not be as refined as intelligence possibly could be.

 

[JohnK]

I'm sure I was being profiled and pulled aside more often around 10 years ago when I was going to Thailand 4-5 times/year.

That seems to have stopped recently and a few weeks ago was let straight through in BNE after declaring golf clubs and golf shoes with a simple "Are your shoes clean?".

 

[RooFlyer]

But yeah, just assuming a 25 year old with a beard is 'high risk' may not be as refined as intelligence possibly could be.

'High risk', or statistically 'more likely to be of interest' to customs officers? As Dannyism indicated, not having the resources to do everyone (so to speak), the officers on any duty can get a higher success rate than random, by targeting those who statistically are shown to be more likely to be an offender. The flaw of course is that a true offender will go out of their way to look unlike what they think an offender in their line of work would look like. Hopefully the profiling is more than just appearance!

The vast majority who fit some or more of the profile but who are innocent travellers I'm afraid are doomed to be held up from time to time.

 

[ozjuice]

My wife always gets picked for the explosive swab, i always laugh at this. Not sure why they pick her but 90% they do. She doesn't look too much trouble to me!

 

[Dannyism]

I know customs and police believe profiling works. Otherwise they wouldn't do it. But I'd like to see that statistics on it. Is it actually a .1% vs 10% at a border crossing? Is a 90% failure rate to detect anything worth the angst, indignity and loss of time to those that are subject to a very invasive search? I don't know, but I'd like more information to be able to make an informed decision.

Does it matter whether profiling is 0.1% or 10% more succesfull in intercepting wrong doers? ( I appreciate the answer to this isn't just no. It's a slippery slope discussing surveillance and privacy, a very tricky topic)

If you'd like more information to make an informed decision, I assume you've been up all night reading research papers on the matter. Just in case you haven't here are a couple of links from a 2 second google search.

The conclusion in these papers is that profiling seems to work. Not sure how much empirically. But a little more could be done to help with the sensitivite nature of profiling, such as employing more culturally diverse immigration agents.

http://www.nicolapersico.com/files/airportaea11.pdf

https://www.chrc-ccdp.gc.ca/sites/default/files/profiling_profilage_eng_1.pdf

 

[leadman]

I do tend to agree with you in a general sense. But!

The but is the OPs post. Nothing to suggest racial profiling other than his 20 something son has a beard and olive skin.

Failing to see the ignominy here? Just an over reaction.

He has been pulled out a lot of times, but this is the first time i have been travelling with him for a long time. Him and his mates had a running joke at the Australian Open last year when as they went through the gate he was double searched three days in a row. He told me it happened recently going across to Perth recently, but interestingly he takes it in his stride, as he said its the cost of having a good beard.

With over 2,000 flights and 78 countries, under my belt I've spend a little "tad" time in Customs/Immigration queues in my life and its not an overreaction.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I guess it all depends on which reports we read, who the authors are and what the motives are.

Some articles suggest profiling, behavioural or otherwise, is no better than a coin toss. That it doesn’t really work except, perhaps, for some highly trained experts who might have a slightly better than 50% chance.

With all the work customs officers have to do, and the dozens of different activities and roles police officers need to do, i’m not sure they are the ‘highly trained experts’ alluded to.

I think diversity in customs and policing (and other such roles) would be a great idea.

 

[juddles]

Some articles suggest profiling, behavioural or otherwise, is no better than a coin toss. That it doesn’t really work except, perhaps, for some highly trained experts who might have a slightly better than 50% chance.

Maybe you should try tell the Israelis that

As for "highly trained experts", who knows what such a thing is. I can attest that if you are professional, and dedicated to your work, experience will make you very very good.

And what do you mean by "diversity" in customs? (let's get away from policing )