Flying in Europe

[bean]

So we are headed to Europe in a few months time for a holiday and am trying to work out how best to get around. Flying in Europe really seems like a cross between Tigerair and a horse and cart! From what I can see even business class use the exact same seats as economy, and the food in business class seems like garbage?

So for those of you who have done it what can you recommend-which airlines are the best and would you bother with business class? Or would you recommend perhaps using rail as an alternative?

Not sure what countries we will be visting yet buy we fly into LHR, then want to make our way to France, then from there we are open at this stage-maybe Italy, then over to Croatia, then depart home via Zurich.

p.s Im Platinum so any airlines that I can use this status with to advantage would be great.

 

[Ausbt]

I'm doing same in Aug/Sept. Have SQ J inbound to FCO and outbound from LHR. Italy, South of France, Morocco, Portugal, Paris, London. Internal flights planned are Naples-Venice-Nice; Toulouse-Tangier; Fes-Lisbon; Porto-Paris. I'm just considering EasyJet and all the other cheapies in Y at this stage, but I'm definitely not planning on RyanAir just on principle. I'm also VA WP.

 

[Lord_Lenny]

VA status is pretty useless for intra-Europe flying now with the demise of Air Berlin, unless you're flying Alitalia - so basically into/out of/through Italy. I'd recommend training through Europe as much as possible even if only for the sheer novelty of a reasonably decent HSR network haha.

As a rough idea you could fly into LHR - Eurostar to Paris - TGV through France to Italy - Train/Alitalia in Italy - Alitalia to Croatia (from Rome or Milan) and return - Train/Alitalia to Zurich - Fly home?? That would split the travel between train where you can't use status, and then flying where status comes into play.

Honestly though I'd be inclined to stick to trains as much as possible unless you're really desperate for the SC from flying Alitalia. European trains are generally pretty good, and you can often get first/business class for only slightly more than standard. If you need to fly I'd recommend EasyJet - usually reasonably cheap, not too much difference between them and Y in legacy carriers any more, and they will generally fly you to the city that they say they will

 

[lovetravellingoz]

In Europe I love using the trains. Booked in advance the VFT and/or longer trips are quite cheap.

Plus as one goes city centre to city centre the total travel is often quicker than flying too as:

• No taxis/to from airport - travel , queues etc
• Can arrive just minutes before you train is due to depart vs an hour or more at the airport for check-in, security etc
• No time lost waiting for your bags to come out

Trains are rooming compared to planes.

With flying I mainly just go for the cheapest as you are often only an hour or two in the air anyway and so food, extra room, better seat etc are not important to me.

I also do not travel with more than 23kg of luggage as well (it just becomes a pain) and so do not need the greater baggage allowance.

 

[Yipchoi]

Eurostar have now commenced rail service from London to Amsterdam (via Channel Tunnel)

 

[VPS]

Although you can't describe Ryanair as luxurious sometimes it just does the job - not sure what principles you're concerned about. They are very open about what they offer

 

[bean]

Thanks for all the advice!! Rail definitely seems to be the way to go, prices are pretty good also!

Makes you appreciate just how good we have air travel over here though huh! Air travel in Europe just seems to be really cheap and nasty.

 

[RooFlyer]

Thanks for all the advice!! Rail definitely seems to be the way to go, prices are pretty good also!

The absolute best website for researching rail travel: The man in row 61.

This is also handy for unfamiliar territory: Rome 2 Rio.

As for flying in Europe, as you observe, its nothing special, especially in J (for what you pay). Really nothing relating to Virgin (except Alitalia), so would go on convenience etc. With security etc times and relative short distances, rail almost as efficient as flying.

 

[jase05]

As good as the rail network is in Europe I still believe nothing beats hiring/leasing a car and getting out into the countryside at your own pace. Peugeot have a great lease system and I’d be getting the Eurostar from London to Paris and picking up the lease car from there.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

As good as the rail network is in Europe I still believe nothing beats hiring/leasing a car and getting out into the countryside at your own pace. Peugeot have a great lease system and I’d be getting the Eurostar from London to Paris and picking up the lease car from there.

Cars can be good, but not so good in the bigger cities and some villagers etc.

As for "nothing beats hiring/leasing a car and getting out into the countryside at your own pace" I am a big fan of seeing Europe by bicycle and for me that easily beats a car for enjoying the countryside at your own pace . But when I do drive yeas it is normally in more countryside locations and it does allow a much more diverse range of accommodation.

Most of my recent European trips (including my next one) end up encapsulating all of fly, train, boat, drive, ride and walk as each has its pluses and minuses.

 

[CPMaverick]

Business Class intra-Europe looks weak but that's just because they use seats that can be converted from business to economy (they slide the divider). It's a very clever system actually. They are three seats in economy, and so in 'J' you get an empty middle and a pop-out armrest.

It's worse than VA domestic J, but still an upgrade over economy, although I'm not particularly tall or wide. Whether it is worth the price is another story...

 

[Mattg]

Yes, intra-Europe Business class is a sad state indeed. Pretty much every airline provides economy seating but with a blocked middle seat, better meal, lounge access etc.

Air Serbia used to be one of the only European airlines to provide proper J seating within Europe. Sadly the J seats were removed in the latest cabin refurbishments, although their soft product remains excellent. Otherwise, I think Turkish Airlines is the only airline to offer consistent proper J seats within Europe (depending on whether you consider IST to be in Europe).

There are some exceptions though - e.g. Lufthansa occasionally uses 747s between FRA and TXL and Finnair puts an A350 on the morning HEL-LHR run. There are also a few tag flights around Europe with lie-flat J, e.g. LATAM from FRA-MAD, SQ DME-ARN and Hainan from BEG-PRG.

Having said that, the fares are much more competitive than what we have in Australia. It's not hard to fly for 2-3 hours and pay less than ~$30 in Y. I've become quite a fan of Easyjet... not so much Ryanair.

 

[Ausbt]

not sure what principles you're concerned about.

The fact that they even opened a discussion about paying for toilet use would be enough for me. I don't generally have a problem with user-pays applying to many things, however paying for toilet access might be one step too far. Without dwelling on the detail, there is a bit of a difference when the person next to you forgoes the cost of a user-pay meal and suffers stomach grumbling, to a fellow pax who forgoes the cost of RyanAir's toilet, holding something back and farting their way through a flight. Where is flying headed, really? The glamour age ended decades ago - do we really want future flying to be standing-up like real cattle being transported? I say hold on to some standards at least and Ryanair seem to be leading the charge to the bottom. Just an opinion.

 

[whole-lotta-moxie]

If you are traveling in Spain & Portugal don't discount the buses. We have been to a lot of the smaller towns that don't have train lines and the buses worked a treat. Fairly cheap and reliable.

 

[whole-lotta-moxie]

I also want to add to be alert when taking regional trains in Italy. The inter city trains are fine, which are the ones from a major city to a major city but it's the trains to the smaller towns can be a bit dangerous. We were on a regional train and a group of men were planning to rob us. Luckily I speak Italian so I understood them and we quickly moved to the front of the train near the conductor. Apparently there is a huge problem in Italy with regional trains and gangs of youth robbing people , the conductors won't intervene as they have been bashed and robbed too so they are too afraid. If you are going to a small town I would get a bus. Never been so scared, there was 6 of them.

 

[mannej]

The fact that they even opened a discussion about paying for toilet use would be enough for me. I don't generally have a problem with user-pays applying to many things, however paying for toilet access might be one step too far. Without dwelling on the detail, there is a bit of a difference when the person next to you forgoes the cost of a user-pay meal and suffers stomach grumbling, to a fellow pax who forgoes the cost of RyanAir's toilet, holding something back and farting their way through a flight. Where is flying headed, really? The glamour age ended decades ago - do we really want future flying to be standing-up like real cattle being transported? I say hold on to some standards at least and Ryanair seem to be leading the charge to the bottom. Just an opinion.

Do you seriously think MOL was seriously considering user pay toilets or he was throwing some bait out for some publicity?

 

[Falcs]

Although you can't describe Ryanair as luxurious sometimes it just does the job - not sure what principles you're concerned about. They are very open about what they offer

They serve a purpose, but things like landing in airports in the middle of nowhere, gotchas such as $40 to print out a boarding pass at the airport, flogging everything for sale including tap water, and treating passengers like cattle rather than customers means I won't go anywhere near them.

 

[Falcs]

Business Class intra-Europe looks weak but that's just because they use seats that can be converted from business to economy (they slide the divider). It's a very clever system actually. They are three seats in economy, and so in 'J' you get an empty middle and a pop-out armrest.

It's worse than VA domestic J, but still an upgrade over economy, although I'm not particularly tall or wide. Whether it is worth the price is another story...

I believe they have had "business class" all the way back to row 14 or so in some peak times/markets. I guess if passengers let them get away with an economy seat with an empty middle seat and some food on a china plate they'll keep doing it.

 

[VPS]

They serve a purpose, but things like landing in airports in the middle of nowhere, gotchas such as $40 to print out a boarding pass at the airport, flogging everything for sale including tap water, and treating passengers like cattle rather than customers means I won't go anywhere near them.

I just flew Jetstar in New Zealand and felt like I was in a zoo. I've done a few Ryanair flights and although they aren't the best you are under no illusions what you are getting and if it suits (which it has in the past) then I do it. I recently flew LIG to EMA for about 25 Euros and it was fine

 

[VPS]

Do you seriously think MOL was seriously considering user pay toilets or he was throwing some bait out for some publicity?

Totally agree - that is up there with having standing passengers