Passenger Forcibly Removed From Overbooked UA Flight

[Quickstatus]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

I haven't bothered with United for at least a decade and this happening pretty much seals the next decade for us. I think a lot of flyers will be put off booking with them.
I wasn't happy with the United CEO. He should have done better in his first statement but muffed it.

His subsequent comments about his first statement does not gel with the tone and direction of the first statement.

 

[kpc]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

His subsequent comments about his first statement does not gel with the tone and direction of the first statement.

But it does gel with the fact that a billion dollars have been wiped from the value of UA....I'm sure the UA board and shareholders won't be happy about that!....and Munoz had no choice but to give a grovelling apology albeit too late in the eyes of many. Even before this incident, UA was on my no fly list, and this incident confirms my decision to continue avoiding UA indefinitely.

 

[BacchusMarsh]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

It's like saying it is justified to sacrifice my life to save others.

Not really.

 

[anat0l]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

But it does gel with the fact that a billion dollars have been wiped from the value of UA....

I'm sure that "value" will come back like a spring in the short term, as alluded to by dfcatch.

It's funny how big corporations can do a lot of wrong, but customers seem to forget easily or put that aside when flying them. If people feel so strongly about this, why doesn't nearly every pax flying UA now, still do it? Because they have no choice / no recourse? The fact that they have to fly the Unfreindly Skies (tm) trumps their moral stance on the issue?

The hurt from this may not be forgotten for a while, particularly as this doctor starts court proceedings, but I think UA will be back to normal fairly soon and without a huge drop in patronage.

Check out airlines which have injured or killed passengers in the previous years. No real permanent damage... MH perhaps notwithstanding (but it is still alive and was already in financial trouble before the MH370). GA was apparently a very emphatic "no fly" airline according to many on this forum... now they have a nice F, J and Y product, all is forgiven! SQ killed a planeful in TPE many years ago; incident never happened, SQ are a godly airline!

This incident happens in a country where you can sue for slipping on a banana peel, and gun violence is so commonplace and suppressed by lobbies that it's no more innocuous than accidentally biting your lip.

Even before this incident, UA was on my no fly list, and this incident confirms my decision to continue avoiding UA indefinitely.

You mean reinforces your decision. I don't think you can say "confirm" unless you were convinced in advance that something like this was going to happen or was bound to happen (viz. if I fly UA, there's a chance I will be beaten up).

 

[Quickstatus]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

I'm not a boycott forever type. Im sure I will fly UA in the future.
UA and other airlines need to recalibrate their moral compass. Change is good.
I don't think the other airlines are any better. UA was just the one caught time
They were not unlucky - their policies brought them to this point. It could have been any airline.
Im sure the boards of the other airlines are havinv a serious rethink as well and relieved it was not on their metal.

 

[dajop]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

I'm sure that "value" will come back like a spring in the short term, as alluded to by dfcatch.

It's funny how big corporations can do a lot of wrong, but customers seem to forget easily or put that aside when flying them. If people feel so strongly about this, why doesn't nearly every pax flying UA now, still do it? Because they have no choice / no recourse? The fact that they have to fly the Unfreindly Skies (tm) trumps their moral stance on the issue?

I expect many who fly frequently in the US probably are of the view that whilst it was UA this time, i could have just as easily been DL or AA. They have a bad day and strike a bad security/police and the outcome could be the same. {Maybe I am wrong, I will admit I haven't flown a lot in the US - probably between 2-10 flights a year since 2005, except last year, but flown enough for me to struggle to differentiate between the big three, especially flying Y}. The internet is full of horror stories on all three carriers. This one was only notable because of the actions of the intervening security.

Google "delta boarding flight attendant aggressive" or "AA boarding flight attendant aggressive" and you will see what I mean.

Although, I suspect the difference with this instance is the passenger was in the right, versus other "dragging of the plane" incidents such as this one, where the passenger was clearly breaking rules/laws.

 

[Princess Fiona]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

. It's like saying it is justified to sacrifice my life to save others. No it's not OK today and never will be.

Actually no, IMO it's far from that.

 

[Princess Fiona]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

The fact that his alleged criminal record has now been splashed all over the media will only add to the damages claim against UA. ie damages to reputation etc. I don't think the CEO of UA will resign over this but his reign at UA will be much shorter than originally planned. The negativity towards / avoidance of UA will take years to recover. The image of a relatively elderly man with a bloodied face being dragged across the aisle of a UA plane won't be forgotten in a hurry!!

I'm pretty sure his "alleged" criminal record is in the public domain and much like any of the rest of us is liable to be raked over and published by the media in the event of anything that puts us on the front page.

 

[kpc]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

I'm pretty sure his "alleged" criminal record is in the public domain and much like any of the rest of us is liable to be raked over and published by the media in the event of anything that puts us on the front page.

I'm not so sure about that....if I had a criminal record, how would the average Joe Public know about it? Unless someone who had access to that information released it publicly.

 

[Princess Fiona]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

I'm not so sure about that....if I had a criminal record, how would the average Joe Public know about it? Unless someone who had access to that information released it publicly.

I'm very sure about that. AHPRA cancelled medical registration. I'm sure similar exists in the USA boards.

 

[seanpodge]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

What on earth does his criminal record have to do with this incident? I know places where you might have to have a clean criminal record to get a visa, but are people seriously suggesting that any criminal record should disqualify you from flying on a commercial aircraft? How on earth would the UA staff or police have known that Dr Dao has a record (if he actually does)? Even if he did, it doesn't change his actions which from all accounts were completely civil.

It's an irrelevant, gutless smear intended to muddy the waters and take the focus off of UA's actions, presumably because they can't find any reason to defend their actions with that won't be laughed at by the public. A familiar tactic employed by the press and police in the US whenever an unarmed black person is killed by police. Or even when News Ltd wants to attack someone who expresses an opinion they disagree with. They find arguing the case too hard/awkward, so they just lay into the victim/opponent.

 

[kpc]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

I'm very sure about that. AHPRA cancelled medical registration. I'm sure similar exists in the USA boards.

Well APHRA may cancel medical registrations, but there is often no information as to why. I know a psychiatrist who is in jail currently for a serious crime and has been struck off but there is NO information on the APHRA website as to why his registration has been cancelled..

 

[anat0l]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

What on earth does his criminal record have to do with this incident? I know places where you might have to have a clean criminal record to get a visa, but are people seriously suggesting that any criminal record should disqualify you from flying on a commercial aircraft? How on earth would the UA staff or police have known that Dr Dao has a record (if he actually does)? Even if he did, it doesn't change his actions which from all accounts were completely civil.

It's an irrelevant, gutless smear intended to muddy the waters and take the focus off of UA's actions, presumably because they can't find any reason to defend their actions with that won't be laughed at by the public. A familiar tactic employed by the press and police in the US whenever an unarmed black person is killed by police. Or even when News Ltd wants to attack someone who expresses an opinion they disagree with. They find arguing the case too hard/awkward, so they just lay into the victim/opponent.

Fact is that people are very much inclined to not afford someone slack or "justice" if they are known to be of questionable character. This is why people often don't seem to mind bad things happening to "bad people". And I'm sure every religion has the concept of forgiveness and even atheists may agree with the idea of forgiveness, but often we see in the real world that people are not quick to forget a criminal, nor forgive.

I think there was a story a few years back of an "honest man" who had been convicted of dealing drugs about 10 years previous to his moving into a nice area with his wife. Even though his current circumstances were that he's way past his history, the community / neighbours somehow got wind of his criminal history and essentially told him that he was not welcome to move into their community, and forced him to leave.

Now who dug up the "smear" or the "dirt" on the doctor is questionable as to what they were aiming to do. If it was the airline I would find that rather interesting as what agenda do they have to bring it up. If it was the media then they don't really have a reason or agenda. If it was someone from John Q Public informing the media outlet, perhaps they were aggrieved by this doctor and would like to highlight that the latter doesn't have a clean conscience - perhaps this is "karma" (but again, we need to isolate this incident from previous conduct, as it doesn't make sense to connect them in this case).

You are right that it has no relevance to this case per se, but I'm sure if this man were a recognised, convicted con (not on the same scale as Madoff), some might not be so sympathetic to his plight. It is not the correct or just process, but people's perceptions can be very powerful and have helped greatly in getting this story to the magnitude of recognition we are seeing now (i.e. if there was no strong public reaction, even though the act was still unacceptable, it probably wouldn't reach the coverage it has now).

 

[anat0l]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

Well APHRA may cancel medical registrations, but there is often no information as to why. I know a psychiatrist who is in jail currently for a serious crime and has been struck off but there is NO information on the APHRA website as to why his registration has been cancelled..

Could the reason be rather easily obtained, e.g. via a FOI request?

 

[dfcatch]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

I'm with JohnPhelan on this...

As I've said from the beginning - personally, I think one should always comply and de-escalate with law enforcement, in particular on an aircraft.

I can accept standing your ground with airline staff - but once law enforcement gets involved - it's just a much better idea to comply - and then raise all hell later from the safety of your desk, computer, congressman, and lawyer.

His personal past being dragged out will only serve to dramatically increase the damages claim.

But in any event - United F%^&ked this one up - they caused the situation, they escalated it, they had the power to stop it, it was their staff, their policies, their customer, their aircraft, and they entered into the contract of sale/carriage with the customer. Separately - the law enforcement officers may be in the doo-doo too.

But this isn't about complying with lawful directions, this isn't about Contracts of Carriage and what an airline can or cannot do.

This is about piss-poor customer service.

Plain and simple - and in this case - United is guilty as charged - and will remain in the stocks for some time.

The public may stop throwing rotten tomatoes soon.

But Congress has only just begun...

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

As I've said from the beginning - personally, I think one should always comply and de-escalate with law enforcement, in particular on an aircraft.

I can accept standing your ground with airline staff - but once law enforcement gets involved - it's just a much better idea to comply - and then raise all hell later from the safety of your desk, computer, congressman, and lawyer.

But meek compliance doesn't achieve change.

As Quickstatus points out, this incident will be the catalyst to recalibrate the moral compass. Getting off the plane and going to small claims is unlikely to have achieved that.

 

[Princess Fiona]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

Well APHRA may cancel medical registrations, but there is often no information as to why. I know a psychiatrist who is in jail currently for a serious crime and has been struck off but there is NO information on the APHRA website as to why his registration has been cancelled..

And I know of several convicted criminals struck off with the medical tribunal judgements freely available on line through the Medical Council of NSW.
The AHPRA website is rubbish for most things.
IMHO any half competent reporter could find out this passengers criminal history in 5 minutes.
Here's an article explaining how the reporters got the info.
LA Times

And again I'm not condoning the actions of United here at all but I think at least some of the public reaction is tempered by this information

 

[Quickstatus]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

"We put the hospital in hospitality"
"Come on board as a doctor leave as a patient"
"The seat belt sign is off in the event of involuntary deboarding"
"Our service will knock you out"

.......

Not the first time UA has bumped a seated passenger and threatened him with handcuffs for another more important passenger. UA was able to get away with that because the passenger relented and was reseated in Y on the same flight. Munoz apparently gave him a refund of sorts but nothing else. I think Munoz last statement is only a response to global outrage and insincere. Those policies would have continued otherwise.
http://www.latimes.com/business/laz...ed-low-priority-passenger-20170412-story.html

 

[Skyring]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

Dr Dao, the victim of the assault, suffered a concussion, a broken nose and lost two front teeth, according to his lawyer.

American police being what they are, he's lucky to have come out of this alive to give evidence.

They won't make that mistake again.

 

[get me outta here]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

I think the US police have been an unfortunate law unto themselves for some time as we have seen on the tv. (Written with trepidation at the risk of this being seen by authorities when I land in LAX in a couple of weeks and then being interrogated).

There has been a press conference on BBC radio overnight with Dao's lawyer and a daughter. They will sue. Other expert advice is that legislation will be needed to effect any change to protect pax from airline bad behaviour.

Dr Dao, the victim of the assault, suffered a concussion, a broken nose and lost two front teeth, according to his lawyer.

American police being what they are, he's lucky to have come out of this alive to give evidence.

They won't make that mistake again.