Velocity Points Expired - no warning! [In contravention of T&C's]

[drron]

Well our relationship with Velocity has come to an end.
Was always not the major program but family pooling to mrsdrron had built up a largish total of points.As we had been able to keep her membership active with pooling and transfers all was well.Her membership year ends at the end of March.Two family pooling credits were done-nov and feb.In Feb I did look at using points for awards to LAX.Unavailable and 2 F awards on QF were less points so that is what was done.
With the tie up with flybuys went to her account and all points gone.Go to Velocity page and at some time before June the way of keeping membership active was changed.Now family pooling and transfers don't count as activity.Not only that the change was retrospective so all points gone on 1/7.
The website also says they would give you 30 days notice.that didn't occur-mrsdrron keeps her emails for 6 months before deleting and there isn't one from Velocity.

So Velocity takes the prize for program enhancement-Retrospective changes and loosing all points less than halfway into membership year and 5 months from previously acceptable activity.QFF and Aadvantage to my knowledge have never done that.They have of course missed out on notifying some.

I searched the Velocity threads and all I could find was someone saying what could they do as points expiring on 30/6-I presume because of these changes.

Even more disappointing we are flying VA MCY-SYD next month because of the need for activity.So velocity frequent flyer you may as well tell velocity not to post those points because at this moment I want nothing more to do with VA.

 

[anat0l]

Re: Announcing our New Velocity Frequent Flyer Program

Well our relationship with Velocity has come to an end.
Was always not the major program but family pooling to mrsdrron had built up a largish total of points.As we had been able to keep her membership active with pooling and transfers all was well.Her membership year ends at the end of March.Two family pooling credits were done-nov and feb.In Feb I did look at using points for awards to LAX.Unavailable and 2 F awards on QF were less points so that is what was done.
With the tie up with flybuys went to her account and all points gone.Go to Velocity page and at some time before June the way of keeping membership active was changed.Now family pooling and transfers don't count as activity.Not only that the change was retrospective so all points gone on 1/7.
The website also says they would give you 30 days notice.that didn't occur-mrsdrron keeps her emails for 6 months before deleting and there isn't one from Velocity.

So Velocity takes the prize for program enhancement-Retrospective changes and loosing all points less than halfway into membership year and 5 months from previously acceptable activity.QFF and Aadvantage to my knowledge have never done that.They have of course missed out on notifying some.

I searched the Velocity threads and all I could find was someone saying what could they do as points expiring on 30/6-I presume because of these changes.

Even more disappointing we are flying VA MCY-SYD next month because of the need for activity.So velocity frequent flyer you may as well tell velocity not to post those points because at this moment I want nothing more to do with VA.

There was an email sent to everyone near the 1 July changes that talked about the reduction in points validity period and family pooling / transfers not counting as sustaining activity. Some people who were implicated in these changes who would have had their points expire on 1 July were given some reprieve (I can't remember what it was) - at least this is what I remember it as; could well be wrong...

Surprised that they didn't give the expiration notice (notwithstanding the notice thing above about the changes). Has anyone gotten their reminder emails?

Did you call Velocity to investigate whether there is a chance of reinstatement, i.e. a chance? I realise - like QF being firm handed on their rules when a member dies - they might not budge, but you never know, especially if you explain your situation (as well as having a future flight in the system).

Now you've made me think about my points balance and the last time I did anything with them, though I think I'm safe as I just flew VA in June.

You could post your VA flight to SQ if you have one, subject to valid fare class.

 

[Jacques Vert]

Re: Announcing our New Velocity Frequent Flyer Program

Well our relationship with Velocity has come to an end.
Was always not the major program but family pooling to mrsdrron had built up a largish total of points.As we had been able to keep her membership active with pooling and transfers all was well.Her membership year ends at the end of March.Two family pooling credits were done-nov and feb.In Feb I did look at using points for awards to LAX.Unavailable and 2 F awards on QF were less points so that is what was done.
With the tie up with flybuys went to her account and all points gone.Go to Velocity page and at some time before June the way of keeping membership active was changed.Now family pooling and transfers don't count as activity.Not only that the change was retrospective so all points gone on 1/7.
The website also says they would give you 30 days notice.that didn't occur-mrsdrron keeps her emails for 6 months before deleting and there isn't one from Velocity.

So Velocity takes the prize for program enhancement-Retrospective changes and loosing all points less than halfway into membership year and 5 months from previously acceptable activity. QFF and Aadvantage to my knowledge have never done that.They have of course missed out on notifying some.

I searched the Velocity threads and all I could find was someone saying what could they do as points expiring on 30/6-I presume because of these changes.

Even more disappointing we are flying VA MCY-SYD next month because of the need for activity.So velocity frequent flyer you may as well tell velocity not to post those points because at this moment I want nothing more to do with VA.

Sorry to hear this drron. +1 Also had some points cancelled in a previous year due to inactivity; very annoying.

Do we still have a VFF rep on AFF? Perhaps a private message is in order.

JV

 

[drron]

Re: Announcing our New Velocity Frequent Flyer Program

Yesterday mrsdrron received the reply to her complaint.
Jack at Velocity said it wouldn't be fair on all other Velocity members to reinstate points.
A reply to Jack as he didn't answer any of our questions.
Doubt the answer will change.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Re: Announcing our New Velocity Frequent Flyer Program

Yesterday mrsdrron received the reply to her complaint.
Jack at Velocity said it wouldn't be fair on all other Velocity members to reinstate points.
A reply to Jack as he didn't answer any of our questions.
Doubt the answer will change.

This is where VAs utter ambivalence goes from being just an embarrassing joke, to really affecting people over nothing more than sheer obstinance. The failure to answer direct questions is so characteristic of VA communications that one has to assume it's straight out of their training manual.

 

[serfty]

Re: Announcing our New Velocity Frequent Flyer Program

Here's the relevant clause:

10.9 Expiry of Points due to Inactivity
10.9.1 A Member's Points will expire the later of:

(a) 36 months after the date of last Account Activity, where last Account Activity occurs before 1 June 2016; or
(b) 24 months after the date of last Account Activity, where last Account Activity occurs on or after 1 June 2016.
​

10.9.2 Expiry of Points will not result in closure of a Membership Account.

10.9.3 VRPL will use reasonable endeavors to provide the Member with prior written notification that the Member’s Points will expire shortly unless the Member engages in Account Activity.

Given they have the email address, I can't comprehend how Velocity can state they used "reasonable endeavors".

As an aside, this implies the last "activity" occurred before July 2013?

Account Activity means, in relation to a Membership Account, earning or redeeming Points, transferring Points to or from their Membership Account using Points Transfer – Airlines, or purchasing Points using Velocity Points Booster, but excludes transferring Points to or from an Eligible Family Member or participating in a Family Pool.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

Re: Announcing our New Velocity Frequent Flyer Program

Yesterday mrsdrron received the reply to her complaint.
Jack at Velocity said it wouldn't be fair on all other Velocity members to reinstate points.

WTF? -- "Wouldn't be fair on other Velocity members?"
He's right - a retrospective change which wipes out the points balance of ANY member, "wouldn't be fair."

Put into comparison - our company sends warning emails on points expiration at:
6 months
5 months
4 months
3 months
2 months
6 weeks
4 weeks
2 weeks
1 week
5 days
3 days
2 days
1 day

We get more uptake from offers/new points created of these combined warning emails than forecast breakage delivers.

As for the generic email newsletter goes - nobody reads these. They have the lowest open rate of any email Velocity sends out, and would not constitute as fair & reasonable notice.

Thank you for bringing this to light drron, as it highlights the highly contagious virus of stupidity within some organisations.
Not only Jacks thoughtless response, but also the missed revenue opportunities in their approach to revenue through breakage.

Continuing on the theme of missed opportunities - this also highlights the lack of BI understanding and data intelligence at Velocity on how your+wifes account are connected to other members in the network. Degree centrality network mapping is basic intelligence 101, and using eigenvector centrality mapping her account would be seen as a 'between connector' with high vertices to the greater social media cluster of accounts - which hold billions of points. Using this information for smarter business decisions is one thing, but also every major global FFP uses real-time propensity scoring to understand the likelihood of a member taking certain actions within the program. When combining the actions these two basic intelligence tools should have taken - it's proof that Velocity, is still living ing "Gut Feeling" decision-making world. And this, my friends - is how you get your company outlook downgraded by analysts, and investors run for the hills. Air NZ anyone?

I hope you get the points back, plus compensation and Velocity takes a legal hit because the change is shoddy at best.Doing the right thing by customers should always be #1 priority in every circumstance.

 

[anat0l]

Re: Announcing our New Velocity Frequent Flyer Program

...is how you get your company outlook downgraded by analysts, and investors run for the hills. Air NZ anyone?

Air NZ as in abandoning their investment in VA, or as in the Air NZ operation itself is going downhill?

.I hope you get the points back, plus compensation and Velocity takes a legal hit because the change is shoddy at best.Doing the right thing by customers should always be #1 priority in every circumstance.

Sounds like you should be drron's legal counsel and get in contact with him.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

Re: Announcing our New Velocity Frequent Flyer Program

Air NZ as in abandoning their investment in VA, or as in the Air NZ operation itself is going downhill?

The abandoned investment.

Sounds like you should be drron's legal counsel and get in contact with him.

Mr Specter never loses!

 

[drron]

Re: Announcing our New Velocity Frequent Flyer Program

This is where VAs utter ambivalence goes from being just an embarrassing joke, to really affecting people over nothing more than sheer obstinance. The failure to answer direct questions is so characteristic of VA communications that one has to assume it's straight out of their training manual.

Actually it is worse than that as Jack doesn't know the program>here is his reply-

Thank you for contacting us about Points expiry.

I can understand your frustration and I wish I could reinstate them for you, but thats just not possible under the Velocity Terms and Conditions, which ensure that all our members are treated fairly and equally.

Points expire when theres been no eligible activity on your account for 24 months. Family pooling is no longer considered as an eligible activity. The term Eligible activity means a transaction where you are earning Points, redeeming Points, earning or redeeming using Points Transfer Airline or purchasing Points using Velocity Points Booster. Any of these activities at least once every 24 months will stop your Points expiring.

I hope this was helpful. If youd like to know more about earning, redeeming or transferring Points, please visit velocityfrequentflyer.com or call the Membership Contact Centre on the number below.

Of course in this case the activity should be for 36 months.Unfortunately I cant check 2013 activity as Velocity will only let you check back to 2014.
In that time there have been 4 points transfers pooled and 14 flights pooled.But knowing our luck the last flight for mrsdrron was 37 months ago.
She does very little domestic flying.when going OS our domestic flights are part of a circle or RTW ticket.
Certainly in the last 18 months we have tried to get a VA award but ended up doing an AA award and a QFF award as Velocity had nothing available.

On a further search of AFF I did find a thread describing family pooling changes in April which were apparently at the bottom of your account status.As mine was always 0SCs and 0 points I did not read these.
Also another thread where this change was mentioned but coming at the bottom of all the points table changes.Funnily searching the VA forum didn't bring these up but only when the whole of AFF was searched.

 

[Denali]

Re: Announcing our New Velocity Frequent Flyer Program

Not once in 3 years she's not done a ebay or fuel purchase, using her velocity number?

The tears, ugly snotty tears, wouldn't stop if I was Mrs Ron.

Uggh. So distressing to read

 

[JohnK]

Re: Announcing our New Velocity Frequent Flyer Program

Very surprising.

A few months back I received an email that dads points were expiring so I transferred them to my account.

VA customer service can be very poor and totally miss the point.

Wish you all the best in getting your points back.

 

[Deleted member]

So that I have this right. So long as I buy fuel at BP each week, that will count as an eligible transaction for velocity ?

 

[anat0l]

So that I have this right. So long as I buy fuel at BP each week, that will count as an eligible transaction for velocity ?

Yes. In fact, it doesn't even have to be fuel at BP - you could buy almost anything else at BP and it'll still count. One of the throwaway pieces of advice that Velocity gave on one communication (I think it was a FAQ) was even a simple bottle of water at BP could stop your points from expiring.

The main thing is that activity is defined as anything which makes your number of Velocity points go up or down, excluding family transfers and pooling transactions.

It's always advisable to log into Velocity once in a while to check that the last transaction is within decent reach so your points aren't expiring soon. Also worth it to make sure that any partner transactions you make actually have credited properly (i.e. you don't have to launch a retrospective claim).

 

[get me outta here]

If any purchase action counts, then the Estore is another way. A $1 eBay purchase should do.

Presumedly, the same with QF.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

I have to ask. A Transaction is still a transaction, even if the benefits are pooled away to another account ... right?

ie. A flight is taken but the points and SCs are pooled off to another account. The person who took the flight has account activity, whereas the person who benefited from the pool does not. That's correct, isn't it?

 

[serfty]

I have to ask. A Transaction is still a transaction, even if the benefits are pooled away to another account ... right?

ie. A flight is taken but the points and SCs are pooled off to another account. The person who took the flight has account activity, whereas the person who benefited from the pool does not. That's correct, isn't it?

I suspect that would be the case.

Here is the definition of "Account Activity" - from the T&C's:

Account Activity means, in relation to a Membership Account, earning or redeeming Points, transferring Points to or from their Membership Account using Points Transfer – Airlines, or purchasing Points using Velocity Points Booster, but excludes transferring Points to or from an Eligible Family Member or participating in a Family Pool.

 

[drron]

However we played by the Velocity rules.But then Velocity decided that they weren't really the rules.who is to say they wont do that again.Personally I think it immoral and if the points aren't reinstated I will do just as the velocity T&Cs say-

3.4 Members may terminate their Membership in accordance with clause 8.2 if they do not agree to changes. Members have no other rights in relation to changes. The changes will apply to Points and Status Credits earn and redemptions between the date of the change and the date the Member terminates their Membership

What an arrogant attitude for a program that is supposed to engender loyalty.Nothing like it in the QFF or Aadvantage T&Cs.
QFF also give you 60 days notice of points expiring and send a 2nd notice at 30 days.

 

[Quickstatus]

People have also been caught out over at QF.

 

[drron]

People have also been caught out over at QF.

But not with retrospective changes to the program.