Goodbye Qantas

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epsc

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My letter to Alan Joyce:

'We are going to cease travelling with Qantas once the flights I have already paid for have been completed, and once we burn through our accrued frequent flyer points, save where it suits my convenience (such as where I have no choice).

Yesterday I travelled Sydney to Canberra return, in economy. As always when I travel for business, I booked the most flexible fares I could find for the flight times I was looking at, as I frequently have to change the times of my flights.

The total cost of the ticket I purchased was $751.01. It was the most expensive economy class ticket the Qantas website permitted me to purchase. Even now, as I sit before a computer and attempt to do the same for other dates, the most flexible and most expensive economy Sydney-Canberra return ticket I can find costs $678.

I finished my work engagements earlier than expected, and went to the airport to catch an earlier flight than the QF1520 (a jet service) I was booked on. I arrived at the airport at 3.10pm, well in time for the 4.10pm QF1420 Dash 8 flight to Sydney, which was half empty (there were 30 seats available).

I was told at the Qantas Business Lounge that even though I had booked the most flexible fare I could for the QF1520 flight, because there were no seats left on QF1420 of the fare type that I had booked on, I would have to pay an extra $110 to change flights. I was told that Qantas, the corporate entity, had no discretion in the matter. Clearly that was a falsehood, as Qantas makes its own fare rules. Calls to Qantas (4 calls in all, as I was placed on hold for 15 minutes at a time) were fruitless.

I missed the next two flights, on which there was abundant availability. I was finally permitted to travel on a 4.45pm flight, because, I was told, there was a storm coming. The storm did not eventuate.

My experience in the past has been that Qantas appreciated its loyal customers, and would exercise its discretion to assist them when that was at no cost to itself (and at times even when it was at cost). I was not asking for something for nothing – I had paid for my ticket, there were dozens of available seats which were not going to be sold. I was not asking for a free entitlement such as an upgrade – just an economy class seat. I did everything within my power when I booked my ticket to purchase the most flexible ticket I could. All someone at Qantas had to do was to exercise a little decency, common sense and customer service.

Instead, I was met with gouging – trying to extract the most money the organization could.

This is but the last of a series of situations in which Qantas has demonstrated to me that the concept of customer loyalty and customer service is worth nothing to the organisation. I have had enough.

I too work for profit, and I understand that Qantas owes its first loyalty to shareholders. However, a little plain commonsense goes a long way. I repeatedly told those to whom I spoke during this experience that I was very well aware of my choice of airline, and was poised to switch to Virgin.

Which is what I will now do.'
 
Just reading up on QF's Flex booking conditions (as I never book flex), and they seem incredibly restrictive to me. Although Virgin seem to have most of the same rules in place officially.

In your case I think that common sense should have been in play, but you know what they say about common sense...

Where VA win here is fly ahead for elites.
 
Thanks for the sarcasm, radar! On the contrary - as a LTG I will use Qantas as and when I want/need to, without needing to strive to maintain status. Its the Qantas shareholders who will miss out, not me - I've just had my horizons enhanced, by being able to access other airlines that because of my misplaced loyalty to Qantas I deprived myself of before.
 
Qantas has amalgamated their Fullyflexible and Flexisaver into Flex. This means that unfortunately you will only see the Cheapest Flex seat available at time of purchase. I think the only way you can buy a Y fare bucket which is the highest fare is to then ring QF and say you want to buy a Y fare bucket ticket.

Would it be correct to assume that the $110 would be the fare difference between your fare bucket and Y?. In that case then I dont see what the issue is.

Why would anyone want to buy a Flex ticket in the Y fare bucket when they can buy a cheaper flex ticket with the same conditions. If you don't have to change flights then you are financially ahead, if you have to change flights then pay whatever the difference between the price of your fare bucket and Y bucket.

For Flex tickets, $88 fee is only payable for name change, and if you want a refund in cash.

Virgin has similar fare rules:
Flexi fare: change permitted plus fare difference, cancellations no fee if credit voucher issued, $80 if cash refund requested.

Are you expecting that at VA you can expect that you can change the Flexi fare ticket without ever having to pay for the fare difference?. I do concede that what you are asking for - some consideration and leeway is not necessarily unreasonable. However I suspect that the airline's perceived value of you (and most of us) as a customer is not high enough for them to press the "let this go to the keeper" button

Going forward: Virgin has a published Gold and Platinum benefit of "Fly Ahead". This allows an any fare passengers to request a seat on an earlier flight if the the same or lower fare bucket is still available on that earlier flight. ( Request in VA lounge).The restriction is that the same or lower fare bucket must be available on the fly ahead flight. The higher your fare bucket the higher the chances of fly ahead if a seat is available. Of course this is only available if no checked luggage.

Let us know whats its like on the other side. Is the grass greener?

Most passengers with LTG have the ultimate flexibility to fly with other airlines without losing their gold perks. John K I think is one of them and frequently lurks in both the QF and VA lounges. Maybe you will meet him in your travels in both lounges.
 
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The point is being missed. Good customer service means being flexible with strict application of your rules, especially where you don't suffer commercially. Fail to do that, where you have done it before, and you incur dissatisfaction. I don't expect Virgin to do anything special for me - I have not flown with them, there could be no suggestion of 'loyalty'. But where I have been a QClub member for 25 years and a WP for 10, spending a lot of money on Qantas to the exclusion of other airlines, it makes more sense to me to waive $110 than to lose the business from that passenger altogether. That's what I do in business.
I may be only an individual, not worth much to the airline. But my c.$40,000pa is now going elsewhere. It's just not good business sense.
 
Hopefully someone with EF can pull out the published fares for SYD-CBR.

You bought a "Flex Fare" one of a number of fares in this bucket - this entitles you to change flights without a "Change Fee" but still subject to any "Fare Difference" if applicable
(which will often be the case for a last minute change to a full flight)
For cheaper fares you have to pay both a "Change Fee" and the "Fare Difference" and indeed with Red e-deal you cant change at all on day of travel - its fare loss.

Example... If today I want to book on the Monday morning 0730/0815 flight SYD-CBR the fare is $536 one-way for a Flex.. Other Flex fares are $365 and $336 respectively for earlier or later flights.
I suspect most people would be paying a change fee for those two flights..

Sometimes there won't be a fare difference, sometimes there will be. Sometimes the agent will be able to waive it, sometimes computer says no.

Put simply you didn't understand exactly what you were buying.


--

Note if Flex meant what you thought it would.
Then anyone who wanted to fly on the 0730 SYD-CBR but not pay $536 would just pay $336 for the 0955 flight, then call up and change it!.
 
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I have found my experience Qantas to be the reverse of this .
While not always , we Mrs GPH and I , have frequently been offers an earlier flight. Mind you , we rarely ask, it is almost always offered.
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I am aware of all that. The point is - for the sake of blind adherence to its rule, with 30 odd seats free on the flight in question, Qantas has elected to put $110 before ongoing business from a (previously) loyal customer. My point - this does not make good business sense.
 
I am aware of all that. The point is - for the sake of blind adherence to its rule, with 30 odd seats free on the flight in question, Qantas has elected to put $110 before ongoing business from a (previously) loyal customer. My point - this does not make good business sense.

What is missing for me is the fare bucket availability. Do you know the fare class of the 30 seats? You should know the fare class for your ticket. If your fare class wasn't Y, then there will always be a risk of a fare difference to pay.

BTW what is the basis for saying there were 30 seats? Generally, with most online fare tools, like expert flyer, it is not possible to say the total number of seats available. The seat map doesn't provide information about the total number of available seats.
 
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Its the Qantas shareholders who will miss out, not me

Given the types of shareholders who actually hold the greatest voting powers within the airline, I would say they are of the same league that they wouldn't care about you leaving any more than the ant they stepped on and killed whilst leaving the house that morning.

I personally find your argument and stance inconsistent, but I'm not here to sway you one way or the other, because your mind is obviously made up, especially considering the contemptuous tone of your parting letter.
 
So let me get this straight.
You bought a product / service, for an agreed price, which has a set of terms and conditions attached to that service?
You meanwhile have decided , for whatever reason to vary the use / timing of that product / service ?
So within the stated and agreed terms and conditions of that product / service , the service / Product provider has invoked said agreed T's &C's.
Your beef then is that QF don't recognise your special status as a valued client (or DYKWIA) and treated you as they would everyone else. ..........or should your exulted status be more deserving of special treatment ?
 
So let me get this straight.
You bought a product / service, for an agreed price, which has a set of terms and conditions attached to that service?
You meanwhile have decided , for whatever reason to vary the use / timing of that product / service ?
So within the stated and agreed terms and conditions of that product / service , the service / Product provider has invoked said agreed T's &C's.
Your beef then is that QF don't recognise your special status as a valued client (or DYKWIA) and treated you as they would everyone else. ..........or should your exulted status be more deserving of special treatment ?

Audacious! Can't wait for the replies to this comment.

NB: I have no opinion on the matter, but am loving the debate
 
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I am aware of all that. The point is - for the sake of blind adherence to its rule, with 30 odd seats free on the flight in question, Qantas has elected to put $110 before ongoing business from a (previously) loyal customer. My point - this does not make good business sense.

You have just discovered that airline "loyalty" is one way - your loyalty to the airline.

What you say makes sense on one level. However, I can just imagine that its not going to be just $110. If they gave you some considerations here, human nature suggests that you (and most of us) will be expecting the same consideration next time and everytime. Consideration turns into expectations which turns into entitlement

FWIW I have had airline love in the form of upgrade, fly ahead, extra luggage, etc etc from both QF and VA at various status levels and also airline slap in the face from both. So if the airline concerned is VA or XX I would be saying the same.
 
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...snip...
Virgin has similar fare rules:
Flexi fare: change permitted plus fare difference, cancellations no fee if credit voucher issued, $80 if cash refund requested.

Are you expecting that at VA you can expect that you can change the Flexi fare ticket without ever having to pay for the fare difference?. I do concede that what you are asking for - some consideration and leeway is not necessarily unreasonable. However I suspect that the airline's perceived value of you (and most of us) as a customer is not high enough for them to press the "let this go to the keeper" button

Going forward: Virgin has a published Gold and Platinum benefit of "Fly Ahead". This allows an any fare passengers to request a seat on an earlier flight if the the same or lower fare bucket is still available on that earlier flight. ( Request in VA lounge).The restriction is that the same or lower fare bucket must be available on the fly ahead flight. The higher your fare bucket the higher the chances of fly ahead if a seat is available. Of course this is only available if no checked luggage.

Let us know whats its like on the other side. Is the grass greener?

Sometimes it's greener Quickstatus.

I used to get our admin to call ahead if I could catch an earlier flight. No matter the fare type, was always charged a fee and/or fare difference). It doesn't take long to realise that Flexi's are often anything but. I had a long conversation with VA about not being able to select a higher flexi fare at the time of booking - just flexi at the price at the time of booking.

Now I just show up at the airport and I'm usually offered fly ahead at checkin. I've never done it at the lounge because i always have checkin luggage. Without actually keeping score, I cannot recall not flying ahead where available - but it's always been on the inbound leg. That's with checkin luggage on savers and flexi.

That's good service. The OP's grievance seems reasonable to me. The fare bucket and cost of the ticket are irrelevant at that late stage. Different If he tried to change to a "more expensive" flight weeks/days in advance then the QF flexi rules seem appropriate.
 
I am aware of all that. The point is - for the sake of blind adherence to its rule, with 30 odd seats free on the flight in question, Qantas has elected to put $110 before ongoing business from a (previously) loyal customer. My point - this does not make good business sense.
I totally get where you are coming from - it is not about the money, it is about feeling you don't matter to Qantas after many years of loyalty. I think though you have to realise that Loyalty is a one way street with airlines (probably all companies these days). Everything is short term horizons and the next report to the stock market.

The rise of loyalty programs mean airlines rather than fixing up service and problems can just throw some points compensation and most people feel that is fair enough. I think it is fair as well, but not at the cost of doing something to ensure the service failure doesn't happen again!

I think realistically unless you are P1 or CL, don't expect any recognition or anything special being done for you. Just fly whoever suits you at the time and don't expect too much... I can remember the good ol' days of TAA and Ansett. One would have cough service for awhile and lose market share and then they would ramp up the offering and service and start grabbing it back again. Unfortunately with Frequent flyer schemes and a captive audience the same sort of swings don't seem to happen.
 
Gosh, folks, what hostility. Let me be clear - I am talking about making business sense. Qantas has previously exercised greater flexibility in adhering to its own rules (and it is dishonest of the organisation to tell a customer that it is bound by its rules, as we all know). Now, it is choosing not to exercise that flexibility. In a situation where it could do so, without loss. If it had never done so, that is one thing - we customers would know not to expect flexibility. But it has in the past, and chooses not to now. I know what I would do in business, in those circumstances.
 
Sometimes it's greener Quickstatus.

I used to get our admin to call ahead if I could catch an earlier flight. No matter the fare type, was always charged a fee and/or fare difference). It doesn't take long to realise that Flexi's are often anything but. I had a long conversation with VA about not being able to select a higher flexi fare at the time of booking - just flexi at the price at the time of booking.

Now I just show up at the airport and I'm usually offered fly ahead at checkin. I've never done it at the lounge because i always have checkin luggage. Without actually keeping score, I cannot recall not flying ahead where available - but it's always been on the inbound leg. That's with checkin luggage on savers and flexi.

That's good service. The OP's grievance seems reasonable to me. The fare bucket and cost of the ticket are irrelevant at that late stage. Different If he tried to change to a "more expensive" flight weeks/days in advance then the QF flexi rules seem appropriate.


Ive had Fly ahead mostly on the return leg as well. And you are correct, I can select a fly ahead at the checkin which means checked luggage allowed for fly ahead at checkin.

Unfortunately most if not all airlines have different fare buckets within a fare condition. I suspect this is part of their yield management strategy. It would be really good to have an online purchase screen which shows all their fare buckets and their prices.
 
You're spot on, FM - the answer is to forget the concept of loyalty and just go with the cheapest/best suited to you, and have no expectations. Frustrating thing is - the approach of showing a little helpfulness in the past paid dividends for Qantas at the time, and the current attitude just shoots itself in the foot.
 
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