Claiming Aquire points but not QFF points

[eosphoros]

I can't find anything in the rules in relation to this but does anyone know whether one can claim Aquire points on QF where the flight is credited to AA?

 

[TonyHancock]

No Earn due to non QFF membership number used

Is what I get when crediting BA.

 

[samh004]

The T&C explicitly state you need to credit to QFF to also claim them on Aquire. I'll have a look for the specific section for you, but I have seen it before.

Edit: Couldn't find the exact wording I was looking for, but...

Aquire Airline Reward Scheme Terms and Conditions

Effective 31 March 2014 and amended on 23 July 2015

7.4 Aquire Points earned are credited to a Member in addition to any Qantas Points that are earned by and credited to the Aquire Flyer as an individual member of the QFF Program.

7.5 To earn Aquire Points in relation to an Eligible Flight, the Member's ABN and the Aquire Flyer's QFF Program membership number must be provided at the time of booking and the member must comply with any other booking requirements or procedure advised by Qantas or the travel agent.

 

[eosphoros]

7.4 Aquire Points earned are credited to a Member in addition to any Qantas Points that are earned by and credited to the Aquire Flyer as an individual member of the QFF Program.

That doesn't say that I am required to credit to QFF. It just says that any Aquire points are in addition to any QFF points.

7.5 To earn Aquire Points in relation to an Eligible Flight, the Member's ABN and the Aquire Flyer's QFF Program membership number must be provided at the time of booking and the member must comply with any other booking requirements or procedure advised by Qantas or the travel agent.

That also doesn't say that I am required to credit QFF. It simply requires that I provide my QFF and Aquire ABN at time of booking (which I have done). I plan on changing from QFF to AA at check-in. I'll soon requal for QF WP and want to also requal for AA plat.

 

[OzEire]

Not having a go OP, but this is pulling the proverbial. I'm fairly sure QF didn't intend this, even if the Ts n Cs don't explicitly prohibit it.

 

[medhead]

[/I][/COLOR]That doesn't say that I am required to credit to QFF. It just says that any Aquire points are in addition to any QFF points.



That also doesn't say that I am required to credit QFF. It simply requires that I provide my QFF and Aquire ABN at time of booking (which I have done). I plan on changing from QFF to AA at check-in. I'll soon requal for QF WP and want to also requal for AA plat.

Regardless of what it says, and I agree that it doesn't say you have to keep the QFF number in the booking. The intention of Aquire is that you must earn to your QFF account to earn with Aquire. I actually think that is in some of the descriptive words about the Aquire program, but I'm not going to bother tracking it down.

I'll share my experience of changing to an AA number on the return leg of a booking. I flew the outbound, no problems. A few days later turn up for the return, changed number to AA earning - Both flights credit to Aquire as not eligible to earn. So the system will prevent you from earning points automatically if you change the FF number on the booking. Aquire credit was, correctly, given for the first flight on the booking when I called to request it.

 

[samh004]

I'm sure I found some wording in the past that gave a more concrete view that you must earn to QFF to earn Aquire points (which would actually make businesses encourage QFF memberships for employees flying for work), but I didn't find it yesterday and now it's too early for me to do so

 

[Mr_Orange]

Slightly OT, but you also have to be on 081 stock, I found out, not just a QF flight number.

 

[burmans]

Not having a go OP, but this is pulling the proverbial. I'm fairly sure QF didn't intend this, even if the Ts n Cs don't explicitly prohibit it.

QF are the people who write the T&C's, if you set the terms then you should spend the time writing them correctly. I dont have much time for this idea of "intent", the Terms and Condition are the Ternms and Conditions, full stop.

Airlines already have the strong upper hand in their relationships by getting to write the legal terms, the suggestion they should be able to change them willy-nilly because "that's not really what we meant" doesnt sit well with my ideas of fairness, nor in fact with the law.

 

[basso]

Reading the FAQs, though, and you get answers like

No, flights that do not earn Qantas Points will not earn Aquire Points.

I think it becomes clearer that you do need to accrue the points to Qantas.

 

[medhead]

QF are the people who write the T&C's, if you set the terms then you should spend the time writing them correctly. I dont have much time for this idea of "intent", the Terms and Condition are the Ternms and Conditions, full stop.

Airlines already have the strong upper hand in their relationships by getting to write the legal terms, the suggestion they should be able to change them willy-nilly because "tahst not really what we meant" doesnt sit well with my ideas of fairness, nor in fact with the law.

The problem is that the information provided is contradictory. Doesn't the law apply the reasonable person test? In this case, it's not that they've said one thing but then said "that's not what we really meant". It's unclear and that's why the OP has asked the question.

If we look at it in detail we see:

7.5 To earn Aquire Points in relation to an Eligible Flight, the Member's ABN and the Aquire Flyer's QFF Program membership number must be provided at the time of booking and the member must comply with any other booking requirements or procedure advised by Qantas or the travel agent.

So first off it has to be an Eligible Flight. What is an eligible flight? https://www.aquire.com.au/terms#definationAirline

Eligible Flight in relation to earning Aquire Points means, subject to these Airline Reward Scheme Terms and Conditions, a regular scheduled flight operated by Qantas, Emirates or American Airlines with a Qantas ‘QF' flight number shown on the ticket that was purchased in Australia and ticketed on a Qantas ticket (ie where the ticket number for the Itinerary commences with the numerals ‘081') and excludes:

1. redemption flights for Classic Reward Flights (as defined in the QFF Program Terms) and Points Plus Pay Flights in the same booking classes as those used for Classic Reward Flights;
2. flights where an airline's flight number other than Qantas ‘QF' is entered on the ticket or the ticket number does not commence with the numerals "081";
3. codeshare flights operated by an airline other than Qantas, Emirates or American Airlines, even when the ‘QF' flight number is shown on the ticket;
4. flights operated by a Jetstar airline;
5. charter flights;
6. freighter flights carrying any passengers;
7. promotional, "contra" and free of charge flights;
8. travel industry or airline staff discounted or rebated flights;
9. competition prize tickets and tickets purchased at auction;
10. discounted private fares or rebated fares under a corporate airfares agreement or travel agent agreement;
11. flights where travellers are booked as a group in ‘G' class;
12. flights which are not eligible to earn Qantas Points;
13. child and infant fares;
14. flights for which the booking indicates a child or infant passenger;
15. flights taken before the commencement of Aquire Loyalty; and
16. flights taken before the relevant Member joined Aquire Loyalty;

Note exclusion number 12. A flight that has an AA number is not eligible to earn Qantas points. It could be excluded.

Going back to:

7.5 To earn Aquire Points in relation to an Eligible Flight, the Member's ABN and the Aquire Flyer's QFF Program membership number must be provided at the time of booking and the member must comply with any other booking requirements or procedure advised by Qantas or the travel agent.

We've covered the ABN and provision of QFF number at time of booking. That's pretty much a given. But what does the rest of it mean? They must comply with any other booking requirements advised by Qantas. Perhaps Qantas might advise that a booking requirement or procedure is to have the points for the flight credit to a QFF number, to not remove the QFF number provided up front.

the how it works page tells us:

As an Aquire Member, your business could be earning Aquire Points at the same time the traveller is earning Qantas Points as a Qantas Frequent Flyer member5

So a business earns Aquire points at the same time as the member earns QFF points. So if they don't earn QFF points...?

Then we have a get out of jail condition:

7.7 It is the responsibility of the Member to check whether a proposed flight is eligible to earn Aquire Points, and if so how many Aquire Points will be earned, before a booking is made.

The member has to check if a proposed flight earns. So they have to ask Aquire whether they'll earn when an AA number has been added later, note QFF must be provided at booking. I guess this is the point where Aquire/Qantas tells them that a booking requirement is to have a QFF number in the booking if they want to earn Aquire points.

I'm not saying it's correct, or anything like that. But it is what it is.

The answer, and my experience, is that changing to an AA number will give no Aquire points. More than happy if the OP, or anyone else, wants to ring up and argue the point. Doesn't change the fact that they will have to do that if they want Aquire points.

 

[burmans]

Note exclusion number 12. A flight that has an AA number is not eligible to earn Qantas points. It could be excluded.

Yes, but being eligble to earn Qantas points and actually earning Qantas points are not one and the same. There are for example many flights that are non-earning because the flyer hasnt entered a FF #, that doesnt mean they weren't eligible.

We've covered the ABN and provision of QFF number at time of booking. That's pretty much a given. But what does the rest of it mean? They must comply with any other booking requirements advised by Qantas. Perhaps Qantas might advise that a booking requirement or procedure is to have the points for the flight credit to a QFF number, to not remove the QFF number provided up front.

Quite right if Qantas advise then this would be true but where are you suggesting they have advised this, there's nothing in the T&C's, where else would they have advised?

So a business earns Aquire points at the same time as the member earns QFF points. So if they don't earn QFF points...?

This indicates earning Aquire and QF CAN occur at the same time, there is nothing about this wording that suggest they MUST, the wording used in the T&C's is COULD not SHALL or similar. We should assume the wording is deliberate in legal documents.

The answer, and my experience, is that changing to an AA number will give no Aquire points. More than happy if the OP, or anyone else, wants to ring up and argue the point. Doesn't change the fact that they will have to do that if they want Aquire points.

Yes, I'll take experience over T&C's everyday, we all know plenty of examples when the T&C's are not followed!

 

[medhead]

I'm simply pointing out that there are mixed messages. Add in the FAQ that clearly says no QFF number, no Aquire points. That would be written advice that a QFF number is required. Then, as the person is responsible to check how many points are earned, when they ring to check is another point at which Aquire/Qantas could advise them of the QFf number requirement.

As for the at the same time thing. So a business earns Aquire points at the same time as the member earns QFF points.

If the member doesn't earn QFF points then the business can't earn Aquire points. It is a statement that pretty clearly links earning together.

 

[basso]

Yes, but being eligble to earn Qantas points and actually earning Qantas points are not one and the same. There are for example many flights that are non-earning because the flyer hasnt entered a FF #, that doesnt mean they weren't eligible.

Although you could argue that if you put in an FF number from a different program, it becomes ineligible to earn Qantas Points.....

 

[burmans]

Although you could argue that if you put in an FF number from a different program, it becomes ineligible to earn Qantas Points.....

I would only argue this if the T&Cs actually said this!

 

[medhead]

What like this:

9.1.1 To earn Qantas Points, Members must quote their name and Membership number, and may be required to produce their Card when acquiring, taking or utilising eligible Qantas, oneworld Alliance Airline, Airline Partner or Non-airline Partner products or services.

Since we are one to the finer points of terms and conditions. I note that an eligible [airline] product or service is different to a flight eligible to earn Qantas points.

 

[samh004]

Has anyone actually sent them a message and asked them to clarify where it says you need to credit to QFF to earn Aquire points? At the very least, if there really is nothing in writing, you can be sure it will be in writing very quickly, and then we'll have our answer.

Until then, I don't think you'll succeed in crediting points that have gone to any other FFP. YMMV

 

[medhead]

Has anyone actually sent them a message and asked them to clarify where it says you need to credit to QFF to earn Aquire points? At the very least, if there really is nothing in writing, you can be sure it will be in writing very quickly, and then we'll have our answer.

Until then, I don't think you'll succeed in crediting points that have gone to any other FFP. YMMV

When I called them to get the Aquire points for flight 1 of my booking with AA number in flight 2, the CSA explicitly said my QFF number had to be in the booking. I didn't ask about the specific condition. But it seems fair enough as a requirement.