What is the Rule?

[Magpie10]

A fellow co worker flew on QF Friday Cairns to Brisbane for work Xmas break up. My co worker is blind and travels with her guide dog. For whatever reason cabin manager decided that the dog must be tied to the seat. This was distressing for both the dog and owner to say the least. They are regular passengers on QF having flown close to 20 flights in the past year alone, I might say and have never encountered this treatment before. No assurance from fellow colleagues also on the flight that the dog was fine and no need to tie her up would make the cabin manager change her mind. In the end one of my colleagues took it upon herself to untie the dog and assure both owner and dog all would be fine. I believe an email has been sent to Customer Service, but just wondering is there anywhere or anyone else we should notify if this shameful treatment?
Cheers V

 

[ajd]

The Qantas Disability Access Facilitation Plan at Disability Access Facilitation Plan | Specific Needs | Qantas states as follows:

Service dogs must be restrained in a way that will prevent the dog from moving from the mat.
Generally, in Business Class (non Skybed), Premium Economy and Economy Class, the service dog is restrained in the cabin by tying the leash to the appropriate fixture (for example leg of chair).
Generally, for First Class and Business Skybed seats, the leash will be tied to the seat track ring.

When you say the dog was "tied to the seat", do you mean more than what's listed above?

(I make no comment about the appropriateness or otherwise of Qantas' policies or actions, other than to say it's not nice to see a service dog being upset...)

 

[Magpie10]

Thanks and it seems that the cabin manager in question was following QF protocol. But as I have indicated it was the first time my colleague had encountered this request or order and both dog and owner were visibly distressed. We may need to check VA policy on guide dogs! It may be that our firm review it's policy on preferred carrier. Thanks for your prompt response.

 

[ajd]

Done a bit more searching.

Regulation 256A, Civil Aviation Regulations 1988 (Cth) (https://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/F2015C00266/Html/Volume_3#_Toc415059642):

256A Carriage of animals
(1)Subject to subregulation (8), the operator of an aircraft may permit a live animal to be in the aircraft only if:
(a) the animal is in a container and is carried in accordance with this regulation; or
(b) the animal is carried with the written permission of CASA and in accordance with any conditions specified in the permission.
Penalty: 25 penalty units.
(1A) An offence against subregulation (1) is an offence of strict liability.
Note: For strict liability, see section 6.1 of the Criminal Code.
(2)Subregulation (1) does not apply to a dog accompanying a visually impaired or hearing impaired person as a guide or an assistant if the dog is:
(a) carried in the passenger cabin of the aircraft; and
(b) placed on a moisture‑absorbent mat as near to the person as practicable; and
(c) restrained in a way that will prevent the dog from moving from the mat.

It appears that the exemption from the rules regarding carriage of animals only applies to guide dogs that are restrained, and it seems to be illegal to carry them otherwise, unless they're either in a container or CASA has granted an exemption.

(I am neither a lawyer nor an airline official, so my interpretation of this might be wrong, but it seems to align with both the QF disabilities manual and also the VA manual which states that guide dog handlers must use an appropriate restraint. It's also not surprising if cabin crew members use their discretion when applying this...)

 

[MrHyde]

Not sure Virgin Australia will be any better. As per Virgin's Accessibility Action Plan at http://www.virginaustralia.com/au/en/plan/special-needs-assistance/DisabilityAccessFacilitationPlan/, it states that "Handlers must supply and use a suitable restraint for the dog in-flight". To me that sounds that the dog must be on a leash and tied down during the flight.

 

[Magpie10]

Thanks everyone, the dog is always on lead when working, so maybe just luck of the draw with cabin managers, but it really was distressing to hear how upset owner was after the event, and during the flight both were visibly upset, I have to say that spending a few days working closely with my colleague I have a new and profound understanding of what an achievement for them to obtain a degree and maintain an independent life, so it does sadden me no end to hear if this incident.

 

[opusman]

Note that the offence mentioned above is one of strict liability, which basically means that if the dog is unrestrained an offence has been committed, whether or not anything bad happens because of it. It seems like Qantas are only following the rules (and really, why does it matter? It's not as if the dog had anywhere to go).

 

[samh004]

There is an AFF member here that I believe has flown with a service dog, his input might be useful.

I have sent a PM.

 

[Solid]

Note that the offence mentioned above is one of strict liability, which basically means that if the dog is unrestrained an offence has been committed, whether or not anything bad happens because of it. It seems like Qantas are only following the rules (and really, why does it matter? It's not as if the dog had anywhere to go).

The dog did have somewhere to go if not restrained in case of turbulence / accident. Not sure about the moisture mat though, whoever suggested that obviously has never dealt with service dogs before and their training.

 

[eric2011]

I personally would have been pleased that the cabin manager took the health and well-being of my dog and other customers on the flight seriously. Heavy acceleration, turbulence in flight and extreme braking is a disaster waiting to occur with any thing un-restrained, including a perhaps 10 - 15 kg dog floating around the cabin in a moment of weightlessness.
I would definitely be writing to Qantas....to congratulate the crew, not complain about them

 

[medhead]

The dog did have somewhere to go if not restrained in case of turbulence / accident. Not sure about the moisture mat though, whoever suggested that obviously has never dealt with service dogs before and their training.

I personally would have been pleased that the cabin manager took the health and well-being of my dog and other customers on the flight seriously. Heavy acceleration, turbulence in flight and extreme braking is a disaster waiting to occur with any thing un-restrained, including a perhaps 10 - 15 kg dog floating around the cabin in a moment of weightlessness.
I would definitely be writing to Qantas....to congratulate the crew, not complain about them

I'm not sure how having the dog tied to the seat by their lead is going to help in the case of turbulence. So they become a 10-15kg balloon, not going to prevent injury.
If the rule is designed to prevent the dog wandering around the cabin - clearly someone has no idea about the training the dogs receive.

 

[Winston1]

I personally would have been pleased that the cabin manager took the health and well-being of my dog and other customers on the flight seriously. Heavy acceleration, turbulence in flight and extreme braking is a disaster waiting to occur with any thing un-restrained, including a perhaps 10 - 15 kg dog floating around the cabin in a moment of weightlessness.
I would definitely be writing to Qantas....to congratulate the crew, not complain about them

Couldnt agree more.


The argument that the dog was there in case of an accident (and needed to be unleashed) is rather far fetched in my opinion. Said passenger had friends who would be much more suitable in assisting in the event of an emergency. I dare say the service dog would not have been paying attention during the pre flight safety demo either.

 

[Denali]

I think, because of the American abuse of the "service dog" industry, we are failing to acknowledge that this person is blind and this isn't a comfort dog for a pampered pax, its a real service animal that is highly trained to guide and protect its master.

Im OK with the dog being tied for safety reason and its the airlines rule but if they untied it, I would have also been OK with it.

In the event of a real emergency, the pax would be relying on the dog to save his/her life and the dog would be fretting if not able to service its master and guide them out of the plane. Could the pax untie the dog in an emergency is my concern.

 

[serfty]

...
Im OK with the dog being tied for safety reason and its the airlines rule but if they untied it, I would have also been OK with it.

In the event of a real emergency, the pax would be relying on the dog to save his/her life and the dog would be fretting if not able to service its master and guide them out of the plane. Could the pax untie the dog in an emergency is my concern.

From ajd's post #4 it would seem this is a CASA/Federal regulation that airlines have to enforce.

The Crew/Airline could be subject to criminal charges should they not comply.

In some cases the law is, indeed, "an cough!"

 

[Hvr]

Noting that the highly trained service animal is provided by an external organisation, why not contact them first for their understanding of the rule?

They will have complete knowledge about the enforcement of these rules and probably even a contact in the organisation should you need to follow up.

 

[Winston1]

In the event of a real emergency, the pax would be relying on the dog to save his/her life and the dog would be fretting if not able to service its master and guide them out of the plane. Could the pax untie the dog in an emergency is my concern.

I don't mean to be obnoxious here - I sense my opinion may be unpopular here, but if the plane ditched in the ocean or perhaps even worse, an untied dog would be nowhere near the owner any more. It would likely be many rows down the plane and injured (having become a projectile).
Even if it managed to get back to the owner, I can't see how a dog would be able to determine the correct exit protocol for an emergency?
I honestly think it entirely reasonable to tie the dog up for the period when humans are restrained also.

In a similar situation to disabled persons, other people/the airline staff should be able to provide assistance on request.

 

[medhead]

Ditch in the ocean?? From Cairns to Brisbane??

Also since only 1 commercial jet aircraft has successfully ditched and that was in a river not the ocean, I say that would be just about the worst outcome possible. Anything worse than that and the dog is the least of the problems.

 

[Punky]

Also since only 1 commercial jet aircraft has successfully ditched and that was in a river not the ocean, I say that would be just about the worst outcome possible. Anything worse than that and the dog is the least of the problems.

General principles are to ensure everything is restrained at various times of the flight.....At least if a dog is restrained it is likely to be somewhere near its own in emergency. What may be questioned is the method of restraint - rather than the need for it.

 

[medhead]

General principles are to ensure everything is restrained at various times of the flight.....At least if a dog is restrained it is likely to be somewhere near its own in emergency. What may be questioned is the method of restraint - rather than the need for it.

Not sure of the relevance of all that to the quoted post of mine. To address your point, they didn't put a seat belt on the dog. i'm not really comforted by having the dog lead tied to the seat. That doesn't prevent harm in the event of an emergency, it just limits the harm to a couple of people near the dog, within a dog lead's distance. In the event of a catastrophic event, as per my post, a dog flying around the cabin is the least of the worries.

 

[Princess Fiona]

A fellow co worker flew on QF Friday Cairns to Brisbane for work Xmas break up. My co worker is blind and travels with her guide dog. For whatever reason cabin manager decided that the dog must be tied to the seat. This was distressing for both the dog and owner to say the least. They are regular passengers on QF having flown close to 20 flights in the past year alone, I might say and have never encountered this treatment before. No assurance from fellow colleagues also on the flight that the dog was fine and no need to tie her up would make the cabin manager change her mind. In the end one of my colleagues took it upon herself to untie the dog and assure both owner and dog all would be fine. I believe an email has been sent to Customer Service, but just wondering is there anywhere or anyone else we should notify if this shameful treatment?
Cheers V

What was it about the leash being tied to the seat that upset the dog and owner ?

I'm having some trouble understanding this.
Did the dog have the same amount of room to sit/lie as usual or was that restricted in some way by the leash being tied to the seat?

Also to those who think the dog would become a 10-15kg missile in an accident you'd have to probably double that weight as an average adult Labrador weighs considerably more.