VA leaves Passengers stranded on Christmas Island

[CPMaverick]

Currently in Christmas Island (XCH) and the twice-weekly flight out of XCH has been canceled due to weather, before the flight has even taken off. The incoming flight, VA1909, currently shows on time.

The weather here is fair, yesterday there was a rainstorm and Garuda's once-weekly service landed and took off with only a few minutes delay.

I called VA and they said the flight is diverting to Cocos Island, not coming to XCH, and they have a recovery flight for Friday... 3 days later! And worst of it, they are blaming it all on the weather.

My concerns:
- Why not fly by XCH (it isn't a refueling stop anyway) and land if conditions permit? Why cancel so early?
- Why not schedule a flight to XCH after Cocos (CCK)? They do that route once a week, so it is not unusual or difficult. If conditions don't allow it, then cancel that new route, but at least try.
- Why reschedule the flight 3 days later? There are no other ways off the island. The weather is mostly sunny tomorrow until late afternoon. They really can't do better than 3 days later?

I get weather problems, but it seems VA aren't even trying here.

 

[Bagpuss]

Not that I've ever flown this routing. However, it always seems to be delayed or diverts via Learmouth from Perth on a regular basis.

Is it Virgin's failure to operate this effectively or a large picture issue?

(Originally when Virgin "won" this route, they used B737's now its always the A320 fleet.)

 

[CPMaverick]

Not that I've ever flown this routing. However, it always seems to be delayed or diverts via Learmouth from Perth on a regular basis.

Is it Virgin's failure to operate this effectively or a large picture issue?

(Originally when Virgin "won" this route, they used B737's now its always the A320 fleet.)

It would seem to be an endemic problem. I spoke to passengers here that were left stranded by Virgin in CCK for 5 days. They couldn't blame that on the weather though as the skys were perfectly clear.

My understanding is that VA subcontract this route, the planes are old and run down. But VA's name is being drug through the mud.

 

[CPMaverick]

Well, it is confirmed. VA has scheduled a recovery flight for Friday. They are going to keep us on the island for three days. They won't say why. It isn't weather, the forecast is good. It isn't the aircraft, they sit in PER and only run this route. It is probably crew. They have crew and aircraft that could make this right, they just choose to not spend the money.

If there is rain on Friday, I guess we'll be here over Christmas?

 

[Must...Fly!]

My concerns:
- Why not fly by XCH (it isn't a refueling stop anyway) and land if conditions permit? Why cancel so early?
- Why not schedule a flight to XCH after Cocos (CCK)? They do that route once a week, so it is not unusual or difficult. If conditions don't allow it, then cancel that new route, but at least try.
- Why reschedule the flight 3 days later? There are no other ways off the island. The weather is mostly sunny tomorrow until late afternoon. They really can't do better than 3 days later?

I get weather problems, but it seems VA aren't even trying here.

There are a few reasons, most of which will have been known about in advance.

XCH services are often fuel limited. Sometimes, you also have weather to contend with, and others crewing availability.

1) Maybe there was bad weather elsewhere which would've precluded stopping a both XCH & CCK, and getting back to Perth with enough fuel - in which case, one has to give.
2) Not that easy, unfortunately
3) I imagine if they could have, they would have. It's Christmas, aircraft are in very high demand. It's very hard to rob Peter to pay Paul at this time of year.

 

[CPMaverick]

What other routes do these A320 (operated by a subcontractor) fly? As far as I can tell, zero. If so, your note about the airframes being in high demand is irrelevant.

The aircraft already stopped in Exmouth to refuel. I don't see why they would be fuel restricted at that point, especially when they could stop there on the return if necessary.

 

[CPMaverick]

Here is the airframe that did the 'flyby' of Christmas Island today.

VH-YUD ✈ FlightAware

From what I can tell, it sat for 13 days in December. I don't think these aircraft get much use, although I don't know what it is scheduled for this week.

 

[kpc]

I feel the OPs frustration. On a separate note, we went to CI last Nov for the red crab migration which was amazing. How was it this year?

 

[Pleb Status]

When I read the thread title, I wondered why VA were putting pax onto China Airlines (CI)...

 

[serfty]

[mod hat]

When I read the thread title, I wondered why VA were putting pax onto China Airlines (CI)...

Clarified Thread Title​

[/mod hat]

 

[Must...Fly!]

What other routes do these A320 (operated by a subcontractor) fly? As far as I can tell, zero. If so, your note about the airframes being in high demand is irrelevant.

The aircraft already stopped in Exmouth to refuel. I don't see why they would be fuel restricted at that point, especially when they could stop there on the return if necessary.

They are not operated by a subcontractor. Virgin Australia Regional Airlines (VARA) runs on the old Skywest AOC - as it was then known by that name. VA came along and saved it from collapsing completely and integrated VARA in to their network.

In my day they spent their whole lives to/from the Northwest on RPT and Charter ops. Now they visit ADL occasionally I believe in addition to XCH/CCK.

Ok so they stopped in Exmouth. I recall a restriction on stopping on both the outbound and return, and I think it has to do with crewing hours. If weather is hot, winds stronger or fuel required (or indeed unavailable) on XCH/CCK then a stop is required and it adds time to the journey.

VA1909 scheduled to depart PER at 1300. With the stop en-route at LEA, it arrived at CCK at 1649 local. Pushed back at 1746 local, and ran all the way back to Perth to arrive at 2351. All times from FR24 etc.

The schedule is to depart PER at 1300 and arrive back at 0020.

LEA stop added 39 minutes on the ground plus time lost in the air. You now have evaporated that 40 minute grace period built in to the schedule, so something has to give - the crew can't do more than 12 hours for safety, IIRC. Having some people left on XCH or CCK is preferable to stranding all, plus crew, and an aircraft, all at once on CCK...

 

[CPMaverick]

If they admitted it was a crew issue I'd be happier. They still say weather.

 

[Must...Fly!]

If they admitted it was a crew issue I'd be happier. They still say weather.

The weather was the cause of the (suspected) crew hours limit, not the reverse. It is true to say the weather is the cause of the delay.

 

[CPMaverick]

Fair enough, but operationally on a route this marginal they need other crew options. But ok, that is probably how they get to put this solely on the weather. I also get that having crew on XCH or CCK probably isn't economical. But they could swap crew at the fuel stop, or not schedule the 'circle' route, just direct to XCH/CCK if the schedule is so unmanageable.

My main concern now is why aren't they flying the recovery flight on Thursday? 0% chance of rain and sunny. The recovery flight is only to XCH and back. They are still telling me weather.

 

[Must...Fly!]

Fair enough, but operationally on a route this marginal they need other crew options. But ok, that is probably how they get to put this solely on the weather. I also get that having crew on XCH or CCK probably isn't economical. But they could swap crew at the fuel stop, or not schedule the 'circle' route, just direct to XCH/CCK if the schedule is so unmanageable.

My main concern now is why aren't they flying the recovery flight on Thursday? 0% chance of rain and sunny. The recovery flight is only to XCH and back. They are still telling me weather.

Likely the fleet is already committed. mine site rotations occur mostly on Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays. As for the crew options, there really isn't any aside from leaving an entire crew on the island for a week (it did used to happen I believe, when VA ran twice weekly). I'm sure some might like to be paid to be there, but it's a waste of resources and huge cost for an airline. Likewise you can't station crew at LEA, for the same reason.

As for the weather, this is the current TAF from BoM and might help.

TAF YPXM 192307Z 2000/2024
11007KT 9999 -SHRA SCT005 BKN008
FM201000 16007KT 9999 -SHRA BKN010
TEMPO 2000/2024 1000 TSRA BKN001 FEW020CB
RMK
T 24 26 26 25 Q 1011 1013 1011 1010

It's been a while since I interpreted one of these, but;

- Issued 19/12 at 2307Z, aka 0707 Perth time or 0607 XCH time on 20/12
- Valid until 20/12 midnight zulu, aka 0800 Perth time or 0700 XCH time on 21/12
- Currently low winds at 110 degrees, scattered cloud at 500ft, broken at 1000 feet
- From 20/12 1000-0000Z (aka 1800 PER time, 1700 XCH), rain showers with broken cloud
- From 20/12 0000-2400 (i.e. 24hrs from 0800 PER time, 0700 XCH), temporary thunderstorms and rain are possible with broken cloud to 100 ft and some coughulonimbus cloud at around 2000ft. These clouds are best avoided. Visibility at 1000ft

I do not know the specifics of minima at XCH but having gone through some Airservices Australia stuff, I *think* you need a minima of 1600ft vis, but I may be completely wrong on that. If that is the case though, that TAF with visibility to 1000ft does not meet said minima.

 

[CPMaverick]

Thanks for the detailed information. I do think you need visibility at XCH. What about Thursday's forecast?

If the fleet is already committed, then Virgin, all the way to the executive team, is lying to me.

 

[Must...Fly!]

Thanks for the detailed information. I do think you need visibility at XCH. What about Thursday's forecast?

If the fleet is already committed, then Virgin, all the way to the executive team, is lying to me.

It's just a guess. I am referring specifically to the A320s. Committed or not you can always change things around and play musical chairs if required. That TAF is valid through Thursday morning, I imagine VA expect that weather to continue. They have specialists far smarter than I at this stuff.

 

[CPMaverick]

I appreciate your comments.

 

[Bagpuss]

Here is the airframe that did the 'flyby' of Christmas Island today.

VH-YUD ✈ FlightAware

From what I can tell, it sat for 13 days in December. I don't think these aircraft get much use, although I don't know what it is scheduled for this week.

I thought VARA operated the two a320's. They use the a320's for charter (mining) flights in WA, some (weekend) flights Perth <> Darwin and some limited Perth <>Adelaide flights.

 

[Bagpuss]

The two a320 airframes...

VH-FNP Flightradar24.com - Live flight tracker!

VH-YUD Flightradar24.com - Live flight tracker!