Seat Map/Availability Question [and "Selling J seats" for Y prices]

[Siegfried]

I just changed dates for my M booking SCL - AKL - BNE from 13/07/10 to 20/07/10 by ringing QF. Prior to this, I checked EF and it told me that availability was was J4 D2 I2 Y1, so I figured I was going to get hit with a chunky fee to change up to Y. However, when I rang QF, they said that there was 1 M seat available, which I promptly snaffled. However, being curious, I checked the seat maps in EF, which showed 3 Business and 20+ Economy seats (and yes, it was the QF seat map, not LA).

About 30 mins later, I checked EF again for availability, and it now tells me that there is NO availability for that routing. I'm baffled!!

Can anyone explain the discrepancy between EF's availability and its own seat maps, and the difference between EF and QF? :?:

UPDATE - just ran the "suck it and see" experiment with the QF booking engine, and got a match with EF's numbers (i.e. J4, Y1) which have magically returned. But I'm still not sure where the M seat came from that I got. Anyhow, I'm hoping that with that loading, there may be an op-up in my future.

 

[serfty]

Airlines can vary published inventory based on a few facits.

These facets include Geographical Region, Country of Sale, Actual Agent etc.


Often I have found Qantas have a greater inventory for themselves than is available/viewable externally.

The J1 Y1 B0 ... M0 ... is what E/F 'sees' from is USA location. Qantas could very well have had Y1 B1 ... M1 ....

Your move to this flight may well have resulted in "Y0 B0 ... M0 ..." as there was "only" the one seat available to be sold for WHY prices at that time. Such 0'ing of availability may trigger an alert to Yield Management who then decided to release further seats for sale in Economy. (More than likely, selling J seats for WHY prices.)

 

[Siegfried]

re: Seat Map/Availability Question [and "Selling J seats" for Y prices]

Thanks serfty - that would explain it. Although the J prices on QF looked like "real" J prices when I checked.

 

[ExpertFlyer Voice]

re: Seat Map/Availability Question [and "Selling J seats" for Y prices]

Seat maps should never be used as any indicator of availability, just to note which seats are occupied and which are free.

 

[Siegfried]

re: Seat Map/Availability Question [and "Selling J seats" for Y prices]

Would that mean that they have been sold but not yet allocated?

 

[ExpertFlyer Voice]

re: Seat Map/Availability Question [and "Selling J seats" for Y prices]

Would that mean that they have been sold but not yet allocated?

That can happen yes.

 

[serfty]

... Although the J prices on QF looked like "real" J prices when I checked.

J prices are still J prices.

However, a flight may have 50 J seats and 200 WHY seats. YM see this as a flight with 250 seats to be sold for as much as possible.

Qantas may have sold 40 seats at J prices and 210 at WHY prices - the plan being to operationally upgrade 10 WHY passengers.

In this case they plan to op-up another WHY PAX as may be necessary if another WHY seat is purchased at a WHY price, simply to maximise revenue.

 

[wenglock.mok]

re: Seat Map/Availability Question [and "Selling J seats" for Y prices]

I often wonder myself how accurately seat maps are reflected on EF for QF - for instance, both of the CityFlyer flights I've booked are showing wide availability in Y (... O9 X9 E9), and while it does reflect the seat that I've selected as occupied, the seat next to mine is marked with an X. Some of the occupied seats further forward also have the seats next to them marked with an X, but others don't and simply have a vacant seat beside them. The X-ed seat next to mine is selectable by me on the QF website, but the other X-ed seats (which are beside the other pax's seats) are shown as occupied on the QF website. Do the seat controllers determine which seats to X and which to leave unoccupied? And how do they determine this?

 

[serfty]

... The X-ed seat next to mine is selectable by me on the QF website, but the other X-ed seats (which are beside the other pax's seats) are shown as occupied on the QF website. Do the seat controllers determine which seats to X and which to leave unoccupied? And how do they determine this?

Are you WP?

I have seen the behaviour you indicate and have compared notes with another WP travelling on the same flights. It seems for lightly loaded segments, Qantas' software (Altea) automatically 'block's a seat adjacent to WP PAX. This blocked seat "moves around" with the status PAX as different seats are selected.

This is the "Platinum Shadow".

When I travel with SWMBO on lightly loaded 737's, I often select a B or E seat for myself with her on the Aisle. More often than not, the Window (A or F) seat remains unallocated - postulating this is due to my 'shadow'. If I select an aisle seat with SG SWMBO beside me, the 'shadow' does not fall across the window seat.

 

[straitman]

re: Seat Map/Availability Question [and "Selling J seats" for Y prices]

Are you WP?

I have seen the behaviour you indicate and have compared notes with another WP travelling on the same flights. It seems for lightly loaded segments, Qantas' software (Altea) automatically 'block's a seat adjacent to WP PAX. This blocked seat "moves around" with the status PAX as different seats are selected.

This is the "Platinum Shadow".

When I travel with SWMBO on lightly loaded 737's, I often select a B or E seat for myself with her on the Aisle. More often than not, the Window (A or F) seat remains unallocated - postulating this is due to my 'shadow'. If I select an aisle seat with SG SWMBO beside me, the 'shadow' does not fall across the window seat.

I have seen this also and have found the 'shadow' stays pretty much until they run out of other seats.

 

[wenglock.mok]

re: Seat Map/Availability Question [and "Selling J seats" for Y prices]

Hey guys,

Thanks for your kind responses and inputs!

I am only a PS, no where near a WP... and yes the seat did remain unoccupied on the way there, but since I changed flights at checkin on the way back, no shadowing on the new flight as it was completely chockers.

Cheers,
wenglock.

 

[Siegfried]

re: Seat Map/Availability Question [and "Selling J seats" for Y prices]

OK - I'm still tracking QF322 SCL-AKL, and on EF it went from 0 availability in any Y fare bucket and J3 yesterday, to J4 C3 D3 I3 Y9 B5 H5 K4 M0 L0 VC SC NC QC OC XC E0 today. I also checked via the QF booking page, and yesterday it was showing N/A for Y, now today I can book 9 seats - so EF and QF seem to agree.

My question is where did these new seats come from? Does QF hold them in reserve and release them closer to departure? Or, given that this flight is a codeshare with LAN, and LAN seemed to be lightly loaded, do QF "purchase" more seats from the flight operator?

Either way, I think my op-up chances just took a dive.

 

[serfty]

As I posted earlier, it is ... "More than likely, selling J seats for WHY prices."

There's probably quite same premium seating available still but little or no Economy. In an endeavour to maximise revenue they will sell the Business seat capacity for High WHY fares. (Y/B/H/K)

 

[Siegfried]

re: Seat Map/Availability Question [and "Selling J seats" for Y prices]

I understand the principle behind this, but what I can't figure out on that basis is how they can offer 9 Y seats, when there are only 6 QF codeshare J seats on the flight?

 

[serfty]

Maybe they mix and match - anyway this has changed again:

LA  801   SCL
20/07/10 11:10 PM AKL
22/07/10 4:20 AM 340
J9 D9 I9 Y9 B9 H9 K9 M9 L0 V5 S0 N0 Q0 O0 G0 X0

QF (LA) 322 SCL
20/07/10 11:10 PM AKL
22/07/10 4:20 AM 343
J4 C3 D3 I3 Y0 B0 K0 M0 L0 V0 S0 N0 Q0 O0

 

[Danger]

re: Seat Map/Availability Question [and "Selling J seats" for Y prices]

I'd appreciate some thoughts on the following SIN-PER:



I'm on the QF78 service in a little over a couple of weeks. In the last three or four days the Y buckets have gone from varied availability to zip. The QF website is also not selling any Y seats on this day (on either flight). Interestingly, QF services to SYD, ADL and MEL that day are also zero across Y.

1. Is it likely to stay this way (ie. sold out in Y or practically sold out) or is this a case of QF yield management playing around with things?
2. I'm booked on the one PNR with two others (one NB, one nothing) and haven't put in for a points upgrade (and probably wont'). I never expect an op-up as I know they're rare as hen's teeth. However, given that there's three of us on the booking and I'm the only one with any sort of status, am I harming my chances in the op-up lottery should this situation be a Y oversell? I suspect it would be extremely unlikely for an op-up to cover the three of us.
3. If I was to put in for a points upgrade, would I be correct in assuming my chances are very good?

 

[Sprucegoose]

re: Seat Map/Availability Question [and "Selling J seats" for Y prices]

3 on a PNR, no real hope here. Better solo.

 

[Danger]

re: Seat Map/Availability Question [and "Selling J seats" for Y prices]

Hmmm. Okay, my greedy side is showing: is it possible to split PNRs?

 

[Danger]

re: Seat Map/Availability Question [and "Selling J seats" for Y prices]

Hmmm. Okay, my greedy side is showing: is it possible to split PNRs?

Turns out yes, it is possible to split PNRs. I've just done this successfully. I'm now on a new PNR on my own and the other two on the booking have kept the existing PNR.

 

[sail0r]

Turns out yes, it is possible to split PNRs. I've just done this successfully. I'm now on a new PNR on my own and the other two on the booking have kept the existing PNR.

Sorry to resurrect, but did you get an op-up Danger?