Relationship between DJ/VA, VX & VS

[Casual Class]

With the rumblings that Virgin Australia may join an alliance in the near future, I wonder what is the relationship between Virgin Australia, Virgin Atlantic and Virgin America and how that would affect such a venture. Could Virgin do some as radical as join an alliance without VX and VS also doing so in tandem?

 

[darrend]

I for one would love to see Virgin Australia join Star Alliance. It has long been rumoured. Be good to get some more concrete intel if anyone is in the know. As for VX/VS not sure how they would fit in the the game plan with SA.

 

[777]

With the rumblings that Virgin Australia may join an alliance in the near future, I wonder what is the relationship between Virgin Australia, Virgin Atlantic and Virgin America and how that would affect such a venture. Could Virgin do some as radical as join an alliance without VX and VS also doing so in tandem?

Yes but it wouldn't be easy.

I think the more likely move is that VA and VS will move towards one alliance or the other - i don't really see VX being critical to the whole thing. It's not impossible that VA and VS would end up in different alliances but VS keep threatening to make an alliance announcement in the near future and i think it will have a big bearing on what VA does.

 

[dk4]

It's not impossible that VA and VS would end up in different alliances but VS keep threatening to make an alliance announcement in the near future and i think it will have a big bearing on what VA does.

From a VA customer perspective, at the moment the other Virgin's are simply not worth flying with.

At Atlantic they won't play ball on status credit, points or even bonuses. (No wonder VA's primary partner to the EU is EY.)

At America they don't even deliver on lounge access. (No wonder VA's primary partner to the US is DL.)

From a Velocity perspective, there is little current reason to fly either of the Virgins.

 

[airtraveladdict]

Would be nice if they joined an alliance, just so we can get uniform status recognition and benefits. That is the one benefit that Qantas Gold/Platinum has the +1 on, the fact that its One World alliance has global lounge access, you can walk into any 1 World member lounge even if you are not travelling with that airline.
Most likely Virgin Australia will join Star Alliance i think, and will become their first member since Ansett.
But I don't know how that will go down with Delta, since United/Continental/US Airways are in the Star Ally....oh well more choices to fly in the USA! I noooo complain... lol
Anyway joining the alliance will open up more routes for Velocity members to earn SC/miles, right now if we fly within Europe or Asian destination, the choice is rather limited, Star Ally has Asiana, Singapore Airlines, Thai Airways, ANA.
But then again, there might a remote chance Virgin Australia will join Skyteam, since Delta and Etihad are already members.

 

[777]

But then again, there might a remote chance Virgin Australia will join Skyteam, since Delta and Etihad are already members.

Etihad are not a member of skyteam. They are unaligned but to the extent that they are rumoured to be close to an alliance the talk is often about OW. Now that would be awkward

 

[markis10]

I dont know why people seem to place so much value in alliances, given the amount of complaints that surface here such as lounge access rights and the fact there is no benefit when it comes to extra baggage? There are obvious advantages but sometimes partnerships mean more to the customer than alliances!

 

[airtraveladdict]

Etihad are not a member of skyteam. They are unaligned but to the extent that they are rumoured to be close to an alliance the talk is often about OW. Now that would be awkward

Ohh i got confused because at heathrow, etihad uses the skyteam terminal.....

777 if they go into 1world that would be hilarious! qantas + virgin in the same alliance. HA!

 

[markis10]

From a VA customer perspective, at the moment the other Virgin's are simply not worth flying with.

At Atlantic they won't play ball on status credit, points or even bonuses. (No wonder VA's primary partner to the EU is EY.)

At America they don't even deliver on lounge access. (No wonder VA's primary partner to the US is DL.)

From a Velocity perspective, there is little current reason to fly either of the Virgins.

What do you mean by VS not paying ball on SCs or points:

[h=3]Virgin Atlantic Status Credit Earn Rates[/h]

1	0-750	10​	10​	15​	30​
2	751-1,500	15​	15​	20​	40​
3	1,501-3,000	15​	15​	20​	40​
4	3,001-5,000	25​	25​	35​	65​
5	5,001-8,000	25​	25​	35​	65​
6	8,001 +	50​	50​	75​	130​

Zone One-Way Miles

Discount Economy​

Full Fare Economy​

Premium Economy​

Upper Class​

 

[dk4]

... given the amount of complaints that surface here such as lounge access rights and the fact there is no benefit when it comes to extra baggage? There are obvious advantages but sometimes partnerships mean more to the customer than alliances!

This is an issue with Delta.

Flying domestic First Class with DL, with Velocity - status is useful, as it provides lounge access that Skyteam doesn't provide (on domestic itineraries): so VA is obviously aware of the Skyteam (competitive positioning to other alliances) lounge limitations.

However in economy on Delta, you need Skyteam to secure preferred seating and a checked baggage allowance on DL, as Velocity provides nada.

Skteam status is linked online to Delta reservations, giving choice seat selection (and baggage allowance).

With Velocity it is not (note no mention of Platinum status in this booking).

 

[dk4]

What do you mean by VS not paying ball on SCs or points:

And how do those figures compare to other partner airlines? NOT GOOD ENOUGH!

 

[airtraveladdict]

Virgin Atlantic has its own SC table and the SC earn is at least 50% less than what you earn on V Australia, Etihad, Air NZ, Delta, Virgin America, table.

For example for Premium Economy,
0-750 - VA:30SC VS:15
751-1,500 - VA:45 VS:20
1,501-3,000 - VA:60 VS:20
3,001-5,000 - VA:90 VS:35
5,001-8,000 - VA:120 VS:35
8,001 + - VA:150 VS: 75

Also the tier level bonuses are only available on VA, Etihad.

 

[Noob]

Virgin projects that by Jul-2012, provided full implementation of alliances and codeshares – including new codeshares with Hawaiian and Virgin Atlantic – it will capture 26% of capacity into and out of Australia; the comparable figure out of Australia for oneworld, with member elect Malaysia Airlines, being 30%.“When I’m asked ‘Why aren’t you joining an alliance?’, the obvious answer is ‘Well, we have an alliance and it’s as big as oneworld in and out of this country,’” Mr Borghetti said.

- CAPA, 2011 (Storm and then calm as Virgin Australia posts loss | CAPA)

- CAPA, 2011 (Storm and then calm as Virgin Australia posts loss | CAPA)

 

[markis10]

Virgin Atlantic has its own SC table and the SC earn is at least 50% less than what you earn on V Australia, Etihad, Air NZ, Delta, Virgin America, table.

For example for Premium Economy,
0-750 - VA:30SC VS:15
751-1,500 - VA:45 VS:20
1,501-3,000 - VA:60 VS:20
3,001-5,000 - VA:90 VS:35
5,001-8,000 - VA:120 VS:35
8,001 + - VA:150 VS: 75

Also the tier level bonuses are only available on VA, Etihad.

Fare enough, a good explanation, I never expect to do any more flying on VS that will earn points, I do find them a bargain when it comes to rewards depending on how you earn points from non airline partners.

 

[airtraveladdict]

Fare enough, a good explanation, I never expect to do any more flying on VS that will earn points, I do find them a bargain when it comes to rewards depending on how you earn points from non airline partners.

I've never tried their reward system but I do like their club lounges the heathrow lounge is really cool.

They also have good transatlantic fares LHR to JFK/LAX in Y, you can always find a return airfare for around $750 Australian dollars, which is pretty good considering its 6-7 hours each way. We pay as just much to go from Melbourne to the Gold Coast, sometimes.... lol But we are talking about apples and oranges, because the transatlantic route is serviced by so many airlines.

Their cash upgrade at check-in is not as good, often if you try to upgrade from Y+ to J, they want the fare difference ($2300-$3000 one way), as opposed to other airlines who offer the last minute cash upgrade at check-in (if available) for $500-800 dollars.

 

[Justchecking]

With the rumblings that Virgin Australia may join an alliance in the near future, I wonder what is the relationship between Virgin Australia, Virgin Atlantic and Virgin America and how that would affect such a venture. Could Virgin do some as radical as join an alliance without VX and VS also doing so in tandem?

Those three airlines have never had anything more in common than a royalty payment to Branson. I dont get why people keep thinking they are an alliance or should be, or will be. Collectively they dont cover much distance over a global map and since their service offerings are chalk and cheese in every direction trying to market them as one 'group' would be confusing to say the least. The only one of those airlines thats a Branson business is Atlantic. The other two were just franchise and publicity opportunities.

In regards to the question above, yes I think VA can join an alliance without the other two. Theyve had bugger all to do with each other to this point so why upset a tradition or pretending each other dont exist?

 

[Casual Class]

There is a common brand between them. While they have existed as separate entities thus far, without the level of consistency or cooperation one would typically expect from common branding, joining one of the major alliance is a major step. The lay consumer seeing the common brand would be very confused to see one in an alliance and the others not or them in different alliances.

 

[airtraveladdict]

Well awhile ago, Branson talked about starting up a 4th airline alliance consisting of Virgin group of airlines. LOL now I'm a Virgin fan but even I believe that idea is flawed.

 

[Casual Class]

Is there value in the virgin name if each airline is so independent?

 

[Mh4k]

Re : Relationship between DJ/VA, VX & VS

A Virgin-only alliance would be wholly uncompetetive with the existing major alliances at this time. There are huge - huge - gaps in the coverage of the existing Virgin-branded airlines when compared to 1W, *A or ST. Huge. Closing those gaps would require literally hundreds of billions of dollars of investment and is not credible in the short to medium term.