QFF Platinum requesting release of extra Classic award seats?

[cjd600]

I had quite a few seats offered to me the other week on a 280k award booking from the USA-AUS. I was struggling to get home (it is for April 2017 - so a long way out) but has multiple sectors offered including DFW-SYD, LAX-SYD, LAX-MEL and LAX-BNE. I did have some reject as well (really wanted the seats a day earlier, but in the end I'm doing LAX-MEL-SYD for 2 PAX. I'll try again in a month or so for LAX-SYD direct.

As NB I was quite happy to snag 4 J on same flight SFO-SYD, late April at end of school hols you round out our 4 x 280k trip

 

[hossein_au]

I'd guess the "peak period" is the issue....

I cannot possibly confirm or reject Jock28's assertion as I do not have access to the internal memo referenced by Jock28.

But I have had (as recently as last month) seats requested and released for international flights to and from MEL, SYD, and BNE. And these were for flights around the Christmas/new year.

On the other hand, I have had requests not coming through for flights to or from CBR at times.

The only pattern my personal experience shows is that QF is inconsistent!

 

[amaroo]

I've gone years without getting a single request approved.

In the last year I've had 2 x J seats released for JFK and SCL (return) ... of course these were requests made with > 6-8 months notice

 

[MrJetset]

It's not the Australian ports that determine the denial, it's the international ones. DXB, LHR, JFK and LAX primarily.

I'm not saying it's impossible, after all I've always had my requests except two approved +3 days of my chosen dates.

The point is that prior to this year WP and above had a reasonable chance if discount fares were available in that class, however they know have internal mechanisms that limit requests.

Some ports like BKK have always been difficult to get approved and continue to be.

 

[dfcatch]

Actually I have the internal document that specifically states the policy. But, go ahead and tell me I'm wrong...

The truth is that the both the droid is configured, and agents are trained to deny your request for specific days of the week and certain ports during peak periods.

I'm well aware of that.

I'm also aware of my previous experiences over the years including on this route and these ports, at various times of the year and various days of the week.

Like I said - your point isn't relevant to my example.

(I never said your point was wrong - subtle difference).

 

[dfcatch]

It's not the Australian ports that determine the denial, it's the international ones. DXB, LHR, JFK and LAX primarily.

I'm not saying it's impossible, after all I've always had my requests except two approved +3 days of my chosen dates.

The point is that prior to this year WP and above had a reasonable chance if discount fares were available in that class, however they know have internal mechanisms that limit requests.

Some ports like BKK have always been difficult to get approved and continue to be.

We're saying the same thing....

That is - that QF has made it more difficult for WP & above to successfully get award seats released.

Which matches with the anecdotal reports in this thread.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

It's not the Australian ports that determine the denial, it's the international ones. DXB, LHR, JFK and LAX primarily.

I'm not saying it's impossible, after all I've always had my requests except two approved +3 days of my chosen dates.

The point is that prior to this year WP and above had a reasonable chance if discount fares were available in that class, however they know have internal mechanisms that limit requests.

Some ports like BKK have always been difficult to get approved and continue to be.

There's a fine line between black out dates and limiting award inventory, especially as more pax earn status and record numbers of QFF points are on the books.
This creates a situation where it becomes incrementally more difficult to redeem points for outright redemption. This problem is compounded with oneworld/partner airlines accessing inventory too.

As uncle Dave says "When customers lose faith in the ability to reasonably redeem for a flight - loyalty dissipates and all the branding, marketing and built up goodwill quickly fades into the abyss"

A more logical approach would be by using the internal scoring metrics for a customer and grant seats based on a hybrid mix of historical + future + potential banked revenue from that customer. For example Platinum member may request SYD-LAX in F to be released for them +1 and the member is seen as a vanilla platinum with 1M QFF points. Using the internal scoring plus future earning potental banked revenue, QF may can easily find out how many points this member has stashed away in Amex MR (perhaps in the millions) - and not releasing a seat basically seals the deal those points will never hit the QF system.

I know of one airline which expects you to purchase in flight duty free when you receive a free upgrade, and new systems they have now track these purchases by seat number on flight etc/linking back to your op-up. By making a purchase as a pax on an op-up you're essentially training the airline that you are rewarding them through additional ancillary revenue purchases when you are upgraded. This in turn increases your internal score with the airline.

Then in a sense you could build up this internal score within the airline/ffp and cash in on it when you request an award seat release, thus lowering your score. If it's too low - then requests for seat releases will always be declined.

Here's a fantastic article on how good airlines measure loyalty - http://bit.ly/28VVLBx. PCV is soo 1999. It's all about big data intelligence these days.

 

[MrJetset]

There's a fine line between black out dates and limiting award inventory, especially as more pax earn status and record numbers of QFF points are on the books.
This creates a situation where it becomes incrementally more difficult to redeem points for outright redemption. This problem is compounded with oneworld/partner airlines accessing inventory too.

As uncle Dave says "When customers lose faith in the ability to reasonably redeem for a flight - loyalty dissipates and all the branding, marketing and built up goodwill quickly fades into the abyss"

A more logical approach would be by using the internal scoring metrics for a customer and grant seats based on a hybrid mix of historical + future + potential banked revenue from that customer. For example Platinum member may request SYD-LAX in F to be released for them +1 and the member is seen as a vanilla platinum with 1M QFF points. Using the internal scoring plus future earning potental banked revenue, QF may can easily find out how many points this member has stashed away in Amex MR (perhaps in the millions) - and not releasing a seat basically seals the deal those points will never hit the QF system.

I know of one airline which expects you to purchase in flight duty free when you receive a free upgrade, and new systems they have now track these purchases by seat number on flight etc/linking back to your op-up. By making a purchase as a pax on an op-up you're essentially training the airline that you are rewarding them through additional ancillary revenue purchases when you are upgraded. This in turn increases your internal score with the airline.

Then in a sense you could build up this internal score within the airline/ffp and cash in on it when you request an award seat release, thus lowering your score. If it's too low - then requests for seat releases will always be declined.

Here's a fantastic article on how good airlines measure loyalty - http://bit.ly/28VVLBx. PCV is soo 1999. It's all about big data intelligence these days.

Agreed. QF's response is just 'no.'

 

[Kangol]

It's not the Australian ports that determine the denial, it's the international ones. DXB, LHR, JFK and LAX primarily.

I'm not saying it's impossible, after all I've always had my requests except two approved +3 days of my chosen dates.

The point is that prior to this year WP and above had a reasonable chance if discount fares were available in that class, however they know have internal mechanisms that limit requests.

Some ports like BKK have always been difficult to get approved and continue to be.

Is the denial related to any particular class of service?

 

[cove]

My son phoned and switched a flight and the lovely staff member pulled a business class seat that was not showing on the internet. He dodged an hour wait by going thru Platinum QFF. Platinum does have advantages.

 

[medhead]

I've just had a J award released on QF15 BNE-LAX. Great, thanks Qantas.

[-]However, I just noticed that the connecting domestic flights have been booked into business, which is an issue as I only had the points required for an economy flights connection. I guess I'll have to ring in a second to make sure the booking doesn't reject.[/-] Actually just checked a single ADL-BNE-LAX in J is 96000. The other 4 of us got Y ADL-BNE and J BNE-LAX for 96000. Stupidly assumed that J the entire way would cost more that 96000. Ignore, my mistake.

Yes, I have just scored 5 J awards BNE-LAX - Now upper deck or front section?

 

[Princess Fiona]

Upper deck is quieter and more toilets per pax ratio

 

[ozbeachbabe]

There's a fine line between black out dates and limiting award inventory, especially as more pax earn status and record numbers of QFF points are on the books. This creates a situation where it becomes incrementally more difficult to redeem points for outright redemption. This problem is compounded with oneworld/partner airlines accessing inventory too.

As uncle Dave says "When customers lose faith in the ability to reasonably redeem for a flight - loyalty dissipates and all the branding, marketing and built up goodwill quickly fades into the abyss".

So what are your thoughts on what's more profitable to an airline?

If you release more award seats that obviously leaves less seats available for paid commercial tickets but then you run the risk of not all the seats being sold however any left over seats can be used for points upgrade requests.

Take a sought after route such as SYD/HNL where a U class award seat one way is (I think) 72,000K points plus $350.00ish taxes vs someone who buys the cheapest upgradeable saver fare AUD700.00 (includes taxes) then uses 48,000 points for a points upgrade if they are still unsold seats when the upgrades are processed. Is it same same but different?

I've just had a J award released on QF15 BNE-LAX. Great, thanks Qantas.

[-]However, I just noticed that the connecting domestic flights have been booked into business, which is an issue as I only had the points required for an economy flights connection. I guess I'll have to ring in a second to make sure the booking doesn't reject.[/-] Actually just checked a single ADL-BNE-LAX in J is 96000. The other 4 of us got Y ADL-BNE and J BNE-LAX for 96000. Stupidly assumed that J the entire way would cost more that 96000. Ignore, my mistake.

Yes, I have just scored 5 J awards BNE-LAX - Now upper deck or front section?

I guess it's a personal thing but have the kids (assuming they are travelling) flown upstairs before? You could go for 15B 15JK & 16JK as there is only crew rest opposite 16JK so nice and private plus the galley is right behind if you need any midnight snacks.

I'm glad ADL/LAX is common rated with BNE so you're not disadvantaged by not having an ADL/LAX flight and thereby paying more in points.

 

[medhead]

I guess it's a personal thing but have the kids (assuming they are travelling) flown upstairs before? You could go for 15B 15JK & 16JK as there is only crew rest opposite 16JK so nice and private plus the galley is right behind if you need any midnight snacks.

I'm glad ADL/LAX is common rated with BNE so you're not disadvantaged by not having an ADL/LAX flight and thereby paying more in points.

I'm really leaning towards upper deck. It's a special thing from yesteryear. special experience for the kids, SWMBO and sister in law (in the family she's known as sister mother, but not sister wife. )
Sister mother got the released J seat so her seat selection is more restricted. But great tip about 16JK. I'm only wondering if the service levels will be better or worse on the upper deck. Probably doesn't matter.
All this indecision is distracting me from now having a points balance of 2415.

 

[Pushka]

Upper deck is quieter and more toilets per pax ratio

After much to'ing and fro'ing I decided that too.

 

[cove]

Yes Mrscove prefers upstairs on the 747.

 

[kevrosmith]

If it's not an old layout B744, you could all take row 5. Two get solo seats and three in middle. Yes, that would include a middle middle seat but there's a fair bit of room around there at the bulkhead and beside each door, so you could have your own little gathering if you wanted to.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

I'm really leaning towards upper deck. It's a special thing from yesteryear. special experience for the kids, SWMBO and sister in law (in the family she's known as sister mother, but not sister wife. )
Sister mother got the released J seat so her seat selection is more restricted. But great tip about 16JK. I'm only wondering if the service levels will be better or worse on the upper deck. Probably doesn't matter.
All this indecision is distracting me from now having a points balance of 2415.

You could do WP seating for the booking for 4 eg 15JK & 16JK of you then call up the Plat Desk to link both bookings and ask if they can allocate 15B for your S-I-L as you're all travelling together.

If it's not an old layout B744, you could all take row 5. Two get solo seats and three in middle. Yes, that would include a middle middle seat but there's a fair bit of room around there at the bulkhead and beside each door, so you could have your own little gathering if you wanted to.

Except if kids are under 15 as 5B DEF J are all classified as exit rows.

 

[medhead]

You could do WP seating for the booking for 4 eg 15JK & 16JK of you then call up the Plat Desk to link both bookings and ask if they can allocate 15B for your S-I-L as you're all travelling together.



Except if kids are under 15 as 5B DEF J are all classified as exit rows.

The bookings are supposedly linked. Todd from Hobart was excellent so I don't doubt that he followed through with the linking. (still to get the itinerary for the second booking however). But the sister in law's booking can get row 15, and row 5 for that matter. Just can't 11 to 14, or 1 and 2. But IIRC row 3 is available. I was thinking perhaps rows 11/12.
I was wondering about row 5, I thought only the two side seats were considered exit row. It probably doesn't matter anyway as I'm likely to add a medical equipment clearance which rules out the exit row.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

The bookings are supposedly linked. Todd from Hobart was excellent so I don't doubt that he followed through with the linking. (still to get the itinerary for the second booking however).

But the sister in law's booking can get row 15, and row 5 for that matter. Just can't 11 to 14, or 1 and 2. But IIRC row 3 is available. I was thinking perhaps rows 11/12.
I was wondering about row 5, I thought only the two side seats were considered exit row. It probably doesn't matter anyway as I'm likely to add a medical equipment clearance which rules out the exit row.

Row 11 is generally blocked off for airport use as its a bassinet row plus 11JK has a medical power point so may be needed by a pax.

The 747 seat map on the QF website has the red border indicating exit row across 5DEF as well as the side exits.

I guess all you can do is just go with the best option available to you now then review again closer to your time of departure.