QF8 or should that be late? (Pilots arguing)

[Per_Travels]

Hi all,

I was on the QF8 flight that was delayed out of DFW last night. Due to a combination of a thunderstorm, unwell crew member, and the time limits on aircrew being on duty the departure has been delayed by about 18 hours. Consequently here I am in a hotel room in Fort Worth rather than where I should be (fast asleep over the pacific with a mild hangover about to rear it's ugly head). Anyway these things happen.

I've done this route (IAH-DFW-BNE-PER) a couple of times before without incident and until yesterday it was becoming my preferred exit route for the US (avoiding the horrors of LAX and pretty good connection times). However what I'm thinking is that if this had happened in LAX then I would likely have been able to switch to one of the other LAX-SYD flights that departs each evening. The problem with DFW is that there's only one flight and if it gets delayed then you're stuck.

Slowly getting round to my question - is this just a one off incident and hence I should stick to DFW-BNE or should I go back to LAX-SYD for the extra flights available should things go wrong?

Look forward to your thoughts

 

[JohnPhelan]

Hi all,
Slowly getting round to my question - is this just a one off incident and hence I should stick to DFW-BNE or should I go back to LAX-SYD for the extra flights available should things go wrong?

With only one flight per day, it is true that if something goes wrong in DFW, you are stuck. Unless you ask QF to get you on an AA flight to LAX, where you can connect to one of the QF flights. So that's one alternative.

It's a meteorological fact that, in the American summer, DFW gets some major storms and thus there is always a chance of this happening at this time of year.

Like you - and with me being based in BNE - the QF8 has become my favoured exit flight from the USA. I've not had any significant delays - but I haven't tried to fly out of DFW in the American summer.

 

[Canny man]

Just to hijack this thread.
How early is it recommended to arrive at BNE international to catch this flight down to Sydney?

 

[SeatBackForward]

Doesnt it boil down to, how much do you love LAX? If you have the freedon/flexibility to be a day late, then DFW is a great option in my opinion. Bear in mind the other issue that QF8 has occassionally had to divert en-route too.

 

[Per_Travels]

Doesnt it boil down to, how much do you love LAX? If you have the freedon/flexibility to be a day late, then DFW is a great option in my opinion. Bear in mind the other issue that QF8 has occassionally had to divert en-route too.

I guess what I'm thinking is that if my 3 times on this flight are representative (I.e. Delay of 24 hrs every one in three flights) then I'll switch back to LAX. If this is just a one off unlucky event then I'll stick with it. I typically cross the pacific 6-7 times a year

 

[harvyk]

Just to hijack this thread.
How early is it recommended to arrive at BNE international to catch this flight down to Sydney?

From memory there is not much point getting there earlier than about 5:30 as customs doesn't even open til then.

 

[SeatBackForward]

I guess what I'm thinking is that if my 3 times on this flight are representative (I.e. Delay of 24 hrs every one in three flights) then I'll switch back to LAX. If this is just a one off unlucky event then I'll stick with it. I typically cross the pacific 6-7 times a year

Well, if you can handle a 24hr delay, then my recommendation is to stick with DFW, but its critical you be back the next day etc..then LAX gives you more options. Perhaps a mix depending on how urgent you have to backk.

Certainly sounds like you've been quite unlucky with QF8

 

[markis10]

From memory there is not much point getting there earlier than about 5:30 as customs doesn't even open til then.

Need to be there by 5 at the latest thanks to the 90 minute checkin rule.

 

[Mattg]

I think you just got unlucky, it is quite unusual for the flight to be delayed that significantly in DFW. It's more likely for it to have to divert on route, but even then it's quite rare. Most of the time there shouldn't be any problems.

 

[harvyk]

Need to be there by 5 at the latest thanks to the 90 minute checkin rule.

90 minutes is the "recommended" check in, 60 minutes is the min check in with bags. So 5:20 might be a good time to check in. When I've done it, check in for QF8 was always pretty empty (insert standard disclaimer of YMMV) as I'd imagine most ppl who wanted to fly to SYD would fly from DOM like a normal person without the extra hassles of customs and immi...

 

[serfty]

I think you just got unlucky, it is quite unusual for the flight to be delayed that significantly in DFW. It's more likely for it to have to divert on route, but even then it's quite rare. Most of the time there shouldn't be any problems.

Agree.

Given the 8 hours turnaround at DFW there plenty of time to absorb most slippage from a late inbound QF7 and to rectify minor technical issues found therein.

It's on time performance is showing as poor relative to other flights: FlightStats - (QF) Qantas Airways 8 On-time Performance Rating

Based on those last 2 months or so statistics, it's 'on-time' or merely 'late' 80% of the time.

 

[Berlin]

I think it depends on personal circumstances and preferences. I HATE 747s like a plague and would do anything to fly on an A380 instead- even enduring LAX :shock:. Then again, I know many people don't care or feel the other way round.

Also, IF something gets delayed, not only does LAX offer you more alternative options, but getting stuck a day at Santa Monica beach or -better even- a night in Hollywood is waaaay better than a Texan BBQ feast in Dallas, particularly if work and/or insurance pays for it. Just my personal opinion

 

[Awesom Andy]

If the LAX-SYD flight gets delayed/cancelled, there would be 300+ others who would be in the same boat, trying to get a seat on the later flight, which may have only 5 seats remaining... so you could possibly be changing for a perceived benefit that isn't really there.

 

[coyote25]

I think you just got unlucky, it is quite unusual for the flight to be delayed that significantly in DFW. It's more likely for it to have to divert on route, but even then it's quite rare. Most of the time there shouldn't be any problems.

Matt do you have any idea how how often this flight gets diverted and average delays? I've got a book flight arriving early morning on this flight and on a separate ticket at 11 am so wondering if this might be a problem.

Might have to see about getting the bookings linked which I've never had to do before.

 

[Mattg]

Matt do you have any idea how how often this flight gets diverted and average delays? I've got a book flight arriving early morning on this flight and on a separate ticket at 11 am so wondering if this might be a problem.

Might have to see about getting the bookings linked which I've never had to do before.

As I think someone else mentioned, flightstats shows it as being on-time ~70% of the time and late for the rest (but the average delay is only 34 minutes). It hasn't diverted or been cancelled in the last 2 months (June/July). Yes, it's late sometimes but it's not that bad. With that in mind I think it's fair to say that a delay of that magnitude is rare and the OP is just unlucky.

I would still link your bookings, if possible, just in case

 

[straitman]

To be fair the on time performance should be compared to other flights also.

QF 94 LAX-MEL 68% 43 min.
QF 12 LAX-SYD 61% 29 min.
QF 108 LAX-SYD 48% 32 min.
QF 12 LAX-SYD 61% 29 min.
QF 16 LAX-BNE 77% 24 min.

Stats from Expert Flyer.

 

[markis10]

I don't think the storm had anything to do with it, and it was unwell crew members x 2, since apparently they were arguing:


QANTAS has stood down two pilots who had a heated argument in the coughpit of a Boeing 747 jumbo on the tarmac at Dallas's international airport.

Read more: Runway ruckus: Qantas pilots hit stormy weather before take-off

 

[Hvr]

Pilots stood down after dispute in coughpit

QANTAS has stood down two pilots who had a heated argument in the coughpit of a Boeing 747 jumbo on the tarmac at Dallas' international airport.


Just weeks after Qantas stood down a captain for returning a positive alcohol reading, it has emerged that another captain and a second officer on a 747-400 had an argument over the take-off calculations they should be punching into the passenger jet's computer system.
Qantas has launched an investigation into the dispute between the pilots, who have been told they cannot fly. The incident occurred last Tuesday night (US time) as a major thunderstorm was rolling across Dallas, causing severe congestion at the airport.


Because the pilots were already close to exceeding their 20-hour duty limits due to delays caused by the thunderstorms, Qantas' flight operations managers decided to keep the plane on the ground overnight at Dallas-Fort Worth International Airport.

Read more: Pilots stood down after dispute in coughpit
​

Whilst disagreements will occur one would hope they would be professional enough to resolve them and actually do their job. The inconvenience caused would have cost QF a lot of money and ill will.

A Qantas spokesman confirmed yesterday that a captain and a second officer had been withheld from service while an investigation was under way.
But he said the flight was late arriving in Brisbane because of the delays caused by the thunderstorms, not the altercation between the two pilots.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/travel/tra...in-coughpit-20120820-24inx.html#ixzz247QPMpMp
​

Is this face saving or factual?

 

[wmetz]

Re: Pilots stood down after dispute in coughpit

If you have ever watch air crash invest , many times accident wouldn't have happen if the first officer had at least queried what the captain was doing.

 

[Per_Travels]

Re: Pilots stood down after dispute in coughpit

The newspaper article refers to QF having to use replacement pilots which may explain why we were originally told the flight would be leaving at noon the next day but in the end it didn't leave until about 5:00pm (and thus making sure that everyone with connections had to spend the night in Brisbane). One other black mark for QF on this flight was that they managed to leave a large amount of luggage at DFW (I think it was around 20 - 30 pax). Looking on the bright side the next QF8 flight (with the delayed luggage onboard) was only a few hours behind us.