Possible Redundancy question

[Brooke01]

Hi everyone,

Seeking some opinions from the smart folk of the AFF community.

I work for a small family company. Have been there for 5 years. Two sides to the business. It looks like my side of the business may be wound down next year, and my job will cease to exist. As the only Sales Manager for this side of the business (I service the whole of Australia in my role) - I will be the only one affected by the decision to "close" this half of the business.

My direct boss has been very upfront with me - and would hope to retain me and move me across to the other side of the business. If this doesn't happen, I guess I would be made "redundant". In our discussions, I have asked him what sort of "package" I would be entitled to if I was made redundant. He looked at me like I had two heads ! He has been with the company since finishing Uni, and most everyone else is also family. Anyone that has been "let go" over the years due to "downturn" was usually just given what holidays etc they were entitled to and 2 weeks pay. However, none had been there more than 12 months. They have never dealt with having to let someone go that has been there for a substantial period of time - and he had no clue what I was referring to when I mentioned a "redundancy package".

He seemed to think that the owners (his sister and brother in law) would most likely "do the right thing" by me, if it came down to it - and maybe give me a weeks pay for each year I had been there.

Ok..............so my question is. (And I can't really find a definative answer on the internet). Is there some sort of law that specifies that I would be entitled to a "standard" redundancy package ?? From what I can see with my research - 2 weeks pay for every year I have worked (that's for 5 years). As i said, it is a small company - I don't have a "employment contract" as such, but I do have a signed "letter of employment" from when I started.

Really just trying to work out if it is worth my while to hang around for the next 12 months - or if I should start to look for something else now. Knowing that I would be entitled by law to a "redundancy package", would more than likely see me stay, unless something really great came along in the meantime.

Any thoughts or opinions would be greatly appreciated.

TIA

Brooke

 

[Deleted member]

It's the position that's made redundant. Not the person. The person is retrenched.
If the business is closed down. I am not sure if "Redundancy provisions " apply. One would hope that fair play comes into the equation here .
But then you may not even have a case ( I suspect) for some % of long service leave
But then I'm not an expert.

 

[Brooke01]

It's the position that's made redundant. Not the person. The person is retrenched.
If the business is closed down. I am not sure if "Redundancy provisions " apply. One would hope that fair play comes into the equation here .
But then I'm not an expert.

Sorry - got my terminology wrong - yes, that is correct. My position would be made redundant, and I assume I would be retrenched.

The company itself would not be closing down. They would just be deciding to no longer manufacture the products that I sell. Both sides of the business sits under the one company name - it's all under the one banner. No distinction between "side a" and "side b".

Fairly unique situation, I guess.

**EDIT** - looks like I may be out of luck. Just found reference that if a business has less then 15 employees, standard redundancy rules do not apply The business I work for only has 10-12 employees. That kinda sucks

 

[DaveB]

The Fair Work Act 2009 should be of interest to you.

Fair Work Act 2009 | Fair Work Commission

The way I read and having used it in the past, they are able to offer you a position in another company they own on the same conditions. If they don't intend to, they are required to give you a minimum four weeks notice for your length of service - see Division 11 Section 117.

If the company employs less than 15 employees, you would not be entitled to the redundancy provisions outlined in Section 119 which provides for ten weeks redundancy pay if you have yet to complete 6 years of service - see Section 121 Exclusions.

 

[DaveB]

Just read your post after making my comments. I own a number of companies each employing staff. My staff numbers are required to be aggregated for the purposes of payroll tax and industrial relations matters.

 

[Pushka]

If it's a small business or related small businesses then redundancy provisions only apply with more than 15 employees. You might find the family members aren't employed but receive income through trust distributions which don't count.

I'd try my best to remain on good terms in the hopes they keep your position in the company. All the best.

 

[Brooke01]

If it's a small business or related small businesses then redundancy provisions only apply with more than 15 employees. You might find the family members aren't employed but receive income through trust distributions which don't count.

I'd try my best to remain on good terms in the hopes they keep your position in the company. All the best.

Oh, I absolutely intend to remain on good terms. It's the best job I have ever had, and a wonderful company to work for. I know they will do their best to keep me, if they can. Bit disappointed that I wouldn't "officially" be entitled to any sort of redundancy package, as definately less than 15 full time employees - but would like to think they would be fair to me, given my contribution and committment to the company over the last 5 years. Fingers crossed !

 

[amaroo]

Really just trying to work out if it is worth my while to hang around for the next 12 months - or if I should start to look for something else now. Knowing that I would be entitled by law to a "redundancy package", would more than likely see me stay, unless something really great came along in the meantime.

Start looking! A month or two extra is peanuts in the scheme of things.

Family companies - the boardroom is the Sunday BBQ!

 

[hummel]

Start looking! A month or two extra is peanuts in the scheme of things.

Family companies - the boardroom is the Sunday BBQ!

Ain't that the truth. Memories of being a kid at the grandparents talking business now I do the same thing in birthdays etc

 

[Buzzard]

If I could not transfer within the company I would start looking for another job now and not wait for a payout.

 

[Timtammi]

I run a small company with less than 15 employees. When we made a position redundant a few years ago, and it was a senior position too, we made the decision to oay a redundancy package even though we were not obliged to. The employee had been with us for about 5 years from memory and although business was tough we gave him 6 weeks pay on top of other entitlements. Ymmv but not all employers only do tge minimum requured by law, we felt it was only fair to do so, so we did.
Goodluck!

 

[Robbi]

If I could not transfer within the company I would start looking for another job now and not wait for a payout.

Wise words.

Had someone at work whose position was no longer required, just a matter of when, and we kept telling him to start looking...now...right now...don't wait for the letter because they'll give minimum warning required....

He didn't start looking of course and the look of shock and worry in his eyes was palpable when he got 2 weeks notice...

Look after yourself without burning bridges.

 

[whatmeworry]

Give Fairwork Australia a call. But in the meanwhile sharpen up your resume and start looking for other jobs.

 

[DaveB]

Slightly OT but directors involved in running a company day to day would be wise to include themselves in the headcount to 15.
Nothing beats being paid by franked dividends thru a family trust structure but no declared wages would be of interest particularly with the Office of State Revenue and WorkCover.