Non-stop Sydney-to-London flights by 2022 (AJ)

[kpc]

I would fly Syd-Lhr non stop on QF if 1) I was in J or higher 2) there was no premium to do so. In the overall scheme of things, saving 3 hours or so, is not a big deal for me and not something I would pay extra for.

 

[Quickstatus]

The benefit of that though is the cargo capacity is probably a lot larger than with 200+ economy seats each expecting their luggage to make the flight. Thus, ability for extra revenue from selling belly space?

Ultra long haul such as this would preclude a full cargo hold. QF8 restricts pax numbers and cargo to make its journey.
Maybe attractive for owners of time critical cargo willing to pay a premium - next day delivery to LHR/SYD?

 

[JohnK]

Just to save a couple of hours? Flight is way too long in any cabin.

 

[keybo]

Wouldn't really be much of a competitive advantage if you start seeing BA, LH, AF, AY, TK, KL, etc. fly non stops to Sydney from their respective hubs with the same kind of aircraft.
Considering they're going on about a 20% premium I don't see myself using it often, maybe once for the novelty. Current setup through DXB with a break in the EK FLounge has no complaints from me Ultra-ultra long haul just isn't enticing at ~900km/h, real game changer would be a non stop flight at mach 2+ speeds.

 

[dajop]

All I can say to the doubters, don't knock it until you try it! (Well at least in a 1-2-1 fully flat business class). . It's not the three hours or so it saves that's important, but instead avoiding the disruption of a mid-journey layover is the big advantage, I certainly find it allows for better jet lag management.

In fact, my most enjoyable(business class) flights ever have been SIN-EWR or vv non stop, including which spent 3rs de-icing before departure (i.e. 22 hrs on the plane) ... it was a great experience too.

 

[levelnine]

All I can say to the doubters, don't knock it until you try it! (Well at least in a 1-2-1 fully flat business class)

See that's the big caveat -- 1-2-1 fully flat business.

There probably isn't the market to make fully J SYD-LHR flights work. And when you're in Y, the break in the journey becomes a sanity and knee/back saver. The only situation in which I could see it working is if Y fares were significantly cheaper than those that have a break in the journey, in which case the financial advantage for running the flights has been lost.

 

[JohnK]

All I can say to the doubters, don't knock it until you try it! (Well at least in a 1-2-1 fully flat business class).

Too long. BKK-SYD in business is too long. Give me the rest on the ground.

 

[dajop]

Too long. BKK-SYD in business is too long. Give me the rest on the ground.

We're going to disagree on this one. BKK-SYD is too short in business!

Well , for me, anyway. My problem is I just can't fall asleep at the drop of a hat. To get a good rest I need at least a 12 hr flight (maybe 6-7 hrs sleep and a couple of meals) . The SE Asia -AU overnights are way too short for that, you compromise on all aspects of the experience. Almost might as well be Y (but don't tell my employer that )

 

[kitkatff]

Well , for me, anyway. My problem is I just can't fall asleep at the drop of a hat. To get a good rest I need at least a 12 hr flight (maybe 6-7 hrs sleep and a couple of meals) . The SE Asia -AU overnights are way too short for that, you compromise on all aspects of the experience. Almost might as well be Y (but don't tell my employer that )

same here, but now I have dinner at the lounge and try and go straight to sleep, and skip brekky if I manage to sleep in.

 

[Flatforlonghaul]

Agree with the last two posts.

For myself, if I'm to sleep on a flight I'd prefer it be non stop rather than a disruptive stop over. For example I recently flew PER-DXB-LAX with EK and NYC-DXB-PER all in J. I appreciate it's the long way 'round' and not exactly comparable to a possible SYD-LHR direct, however my sleeping patterns and the effort of the stopovers makes me gravitate to a direct ULH flight anyday. (hence when I'm in Perth I'm salivating at the new direct flight!!)

If it's a late evening departure from SYD, which I think it would have to be, due to slot times, it would leave at approximately 10pm-ish. Perfect for a day at work, dinner with the family before you leave and drinks in the lounge. Then a few more drinks on the aircraft, a movie and then 12 hours sleep, breakfast and I'm there (perhaps that's just me) before a morning arrival for meetings in London.

 

[Melburnian1]

....If it's a late evening departure from SYD, which I think it would have to be, due to slot times, it would leave at approximately 10pm-ish. Perfect for a day at work, dinner with the family before you leave and drinks in the lounge. Then a few more drinks on the aircraft, a movie and then 12 hours sleep, breakfast and I'm there (perhaps that's just me) before a morning arrival for meetings in London.

Travel agents and the media keep saying that the Australia routes are regarded as leisure routes (not business-oriented routes) where fares are routinely discounted.

This may ignore Christmas and other school holiday periods such as Easter (try booking at say a month's notice and flying on a legacy airline to much of Asia at Christmas), but if true, it may make the job of filling an all J cabin as some AFF members above suggested for nonstop flights difficult.

 

[samh004]

See that's the big caveat -- 1-2-1 fully flat business.

There probably isn't the market to make fully J SYD-LHR flights work. And when you're in Y, the break in the journey becomes a sanity and knee/back saver. The only situation in which I could see it working is if Y fares were significantly cheaper than those that have a break in the journey, in which case the financial advantage for running the flights has been lost.

What about a J/Y+ combo where the Y+ seats focus more on personal space than food/drink? As you're using two relatively premium cabins you can sell higher priced tickets but also get around the issue of having to limit cargo/pax as there wouldn't be as many pax as a Y config. Then you can also sell premium belly space.

This would make the most sense to me.

 

[dajop]

Travel agents and the media keep saying that the Australia routes are regarded as leisure routes (not business-oriented routes) where fares are routinely discounted.

This may ignore Christmas and other school holiday periods such as Easter (try booking at say a month's notice and flying on a legacy airline to much of Asia at Christmas), but if true, it may make the job of filling an all J cabin as some AFF members above suggested for nonstop flights difficult.

If you look at those carriers that are perceived to be "premium" (ie. excluding the likes of VN, BI, CZ etc), J class fares seem to sell at quite high prices ex-AU, to, for example Europe. The challenges in finding availability in J also would suggest that Australia has a reasonable amount of premium business traffic. I suspect Y yields are quite low apart from the times of year you mention, fares are usually quite cheap, so maybe Australia is a leisure market for economy but at the pointier end of the plane, has good business traffic (also interestingly at Xmas J awards on some carriers seem easier to come by , as business traffic drops over that period).

I also expect Qantas to have much better data on this than the media, and most travel agents (other than the big corporate TAs).

 

[mviy]

The thing is if you can't fill the J cabin with people paying cash for the seats you're going to either fly with the seats empty (which is a waste of space that could be used for Y seating) or upgrade people but then the airline is not making as much money from the seat.

 

[Skyring]

The way things are now, I wouldn't fly Y direct SYD-LHR. B*ugger the three hour time savings; it would be torture for me. Y+ at least. I am sure some travellers would buy tickets: the young, the small, the foolish, the cheap.

However, it seems to me that if some of those savings from eliminating the DBX stop were poured into giving a little more pitch and width (say eight across, rather than nine), then it might be reasonably popular.

Health reasons - avoiding DVT - might spur airlines into ensuring that pax had better access to aisles on ultra long flights.

For twenty hours, how many extra crew do you need aboard? Space has to be found for crew rest areas. There's also going to be three meals served instead of two. More space, more weight.

 

[JohnK]

We're going to disagree on this one. BKK-SYD is too short in business!

Well , for me, anyway. My problem is I just can't fall asleep at the drop of a hat. To get a good rest I need at least a 12 hr flight (maybe 6-7 hrs sleep and a couple of meals) . The SE Asia -AU overnights are way too short for that, you compromise on all aspects of the experience. Almost might as well be Y (but don't tell my employer that )

Be careful with DVT even in business class. My circulation not great. I'm better off with shorter flights.

Oh and I don't fly to sleep....