Mileage Plus disallows sectors on code-share

[Rona]

Hi FF online community,

I need some advice on how to tackle a problem of getting credit for sectors flown return to South Africa last year in August 2008.

SA 7701 and SA 7700 --- Operated by Qantas Airways.!!

Qantas has refused as they are SAA ticket stock (e-ticket).

SAA said send in original receipts and boarding cards to UA Mileage Plus in Sydney who will then ask SAA to get credit from Qantas and then credit my UA Mileage Plus account. (So I sent in my original documents of proof)

United Airlines Mileage Plus says SORRY but the SA 7700 Flights are OPERATED by Qantas under a code-share and you will not get credit for them.

And no matter how many times I have tried to get somewhere it seems like a merry-go-round, run-around.

So is it Qantas or South African or United Airlines who should take responsibility for providing me with the credit ?

Thank you for taking the time to read this and please give me some direction if you feel there is some means to recoup my loyalty points.

Rona

 

[oz_mark]

I suspect there is not much chance of getting any points.

1) Qantas was the operator of the aircraft, but you would have needed to fly under a QF flight number to get QFF points
2) It is quite common when flying on codeshares that you have to be on the metal of the codeshare partner to get points. So you would have got points if the flight had been on a SAA aircraft. Can't find a specific Mileage plus reference to this, but is normal.

Edit: There is this bit in the rules:

Mileage accrual and redemption is possible only on scheduled flights operated by the airline partner.

 

[Rona]

Thanks oz_mark for your reply

I have a stub for QF63 that I flew Syd-JHB and the other docs have been swallowed up by UA Mileage Plus in Sydney and so I would be lucky to get them back although they always ask for the originals !!

I bought SAA ticket stock and should I have refused to fly unless they guarantee points for them having used QA code share ?

Is there an ombudsman or place to complain about this anomaly as I have paid a lot of money and have both mileage cards membership (one that costs to be a member) for this to be a sweep-under-the-floormat-job ?

Thank you for your assistance

Anyone else have a clue or should this be posted in another thread as it is not well received by viewers?

Rona

 

[Nigelinoz]

Sorry rona I'm afraid I agree with oz_mark and really don't see that you've got much chance of
getting any points.
I really don't see that Qantas is liable as all they did was provide the plane for the flight,I would have thought that the main party you should be dealing with is SAA,after all they issued the ticket.
SAA are a part of Star Alliance,as are United but Qantas is not,so one would think that if any points were to be claimed it would have to be through SAA.and if,as seems from the quote that oz_mark has posted they will not allow mileage claims on codeshare flights then I suggest that you probably won't have much luck in pursuing the issue.
What I can't understand is why SAA would say that UA mileage plus would "get credit" from Qantas when they would know that Qantas and UA are not partners in Mileage Plus.
I'm afraid I don't like your chances of success in this case,but I do have sympathy for your plight

 

[drron]

This is certainly an anomaly but it is not just the Star Alliance.
For example as poart of a One World global explorer ticket issued by AA one segment was a QF codeshare but operated by Air tahiti Niue.To make matters even more interesting TN is a partner of AA and you can earn ordinary AA miles on their flights.But as an AAdvantage member on the QF codeshare you cant earn AA miles-but I could earn QFF miles.Of course as it was a One world ticket I could not use the TN flight number.
Thems the rules.Logical-certainly not.Loyalty inducing-i would say no.But you just gotta lump it.
So your situation is basically the same.The only points would be being a member of an SAA scheme or QF points if on the QF number.
I've certainly told AA that if they really want us to believe there is a genuine alliance these sort of issues should be resolved.I suggest you do the same with UA.As to getting points now-not going to happen.

 

[AnonymousCoward]

I bought SAA ticket stock and should I have refused to fly unless they guarantee points for them having used QA code share ?

Is there an ombudsman or place to complain about this anomaly as I have paid a lot of money and have both mileage cards membership (one that costs to be a member) for this to be a sweep-under-the-floormat-job ?

Hi Rona,

Not sure why you think is is a "sweep under the floormat job". oz_mark has posted the rules from the United website on what flights are eligible for Mileage Plus earning when you are not flying on UA plane.

It would seem that you need to be flying on an SAA marketed (has an SA flight number) and SAA operated (i.e. SAA plane) to be eligible for United MP mile accrual.

If this is stated clearly in the MP rules, then I think it's incumbent upon you to know what those rules are. I don't know where you booked your ticket through - you would have needed to verify then that you were on an SAA flight, not a code-share.

Certainly I do believe that the SAA office has wasted your time - they gave you the wrong information in terms of posting in BPs and so on.

I agree with nigelinoz (edit*) that QANTAS have nothing to do with this - they just supplied a plane, and have no affliation with United MP, or with Star Alliance in general.

 

[Rona]

In reply to feedback,

Thank you for your helpful insights into my problem of trying to get credit from some carrier after spending money with SAA flights and having been put onto QFF metal (as you officionados refer to aircraft).

I am a member of both UA (partnered with SAA) and QF ff reward cards.

I do not know about Code-Share rules (this only came up in the explanation after being denied) or that I should have to be aware who is providing the metal for the airline when I have booked a SAA flight on SAA ticket stock and QFF flights also.

QF 0505 bne-syd,
SA 7701 "operated by Qantas" QF63 syd-jhb,
SA 0182 jnb-nbo,
then back again SA 7700 "operated by Qantas" jnb-syd,
QF 0540 syd-bne )

I know that someone should take responsibility for giving me points for paying to fly and paying to be a member of their program. Just to say oh! sorry but you bought a flight with us but we use someone else's metal and they are not our partner in any loyalty points program. It doesnt say that on the ticket "you will forfeit your benefits if you accept to pay us instead of the company who is actually going to take you and you will not get points from them either".

Sorry if this sounds like sour grapes and I should be more up with all the rules but I just want to be able to fly and get what I think is reasonable after paying my money, without going into all the detail. That is what a MP or FF membership should be. Get points for paying to sit on a seat and be able to use those points for being loyal by using member services.

Thanks again for the feedback from those who have replied, I am not that well travelled or used to these forums or the intricacies of the FF cards.
Cheers
Rona

 

[AnonymousCoward]

I am a member of both UA (partnered with SAA) and QF ff reward cards.

QF 0505 bne-syd,
SA 7701 "operated by Qantas" QF63 syd-jhb,
SA 0182 jnb-nbo,
then back again SA 7700 "operated by Qantas" jnb-syd,
QF 0540 syd-bne )

For QF flights, you can earn points in the QFF program
For SAA flights, you can earn points in the SAA Voyager FF program

For SAA flights that are actually operated by SAA, you could also earn points in the UA scheme due to the rules that UA have.

I know that someone should take responsibility for giving me points for paying to fly and paying to be a member of their program. Just to say oh! sorry but you bought a flight with us but we use someone else's metal and they are not our partner in any loyalty points program. It doesnt say that on the ticket "you will forfeit your benefits if you accept to pay us instead of the company who is actually going to take you and you will not get points from them either".

The airline that you buy the tickets from (in this case SA) takes your money. It is not the responsibility of UA or QFF to then give you points in their scheme.

If you wanted UA or QFF points you should have ticketed on the UA or QFF flight numbers, or checked the rules around code-shares. At some point you need to take responsibility to.

Sorry if this sounds like sour grapes and I should be more up with all the rules but I just want to be able to fly and get what I think is reasonable after paying my money, without going into all the detail. That is what a MP or FF membership should be. Get points for paying to sit on a seat and be able to use those points for being loyal by using member services.

FF schemes reward loyalty to a particular airline, not any random airline you choose you fly.

So, if you want QFF to reward your loyalty, then pay QANTAS for flights (on QF flight numbers). If you want UA to reward you, then fly on UA numbers.

UA is not going to reward you when you pay another airline (SA) to fly on a plane that isn't even operated by *A airline (QANTAS). How is that loyalty to UA? It's not.

Thanks again for the feedback from those who have replied, I am not that well travelled or used to these forums or the intricacies of the FF cards.

There is no intricacy involved in the most part. Generally if you want to given FF points, you need to fly on flight numbers of the FF scheme you joined.

Global alliances like Star Alliance do give you the opportunity to earn points if you fly on another carrier in that alliance. But generally only when the actual flight is being operated by that partner airline.

I know that this is a bit hard to swallow after paying money for your flights. I'm not really sure why you choose the SAA flight numbers in the first place if you are a member of QFF. If QANTAS was operating those flights, then you could have flown on the QF flight number and earned QFF points...

 

[Rona]

Following on from the feedback,

I have ticket stubs that say the carrier is Qantas. The flight no. QF63 from SYD-JNB and back.

The itinerary says the flight is SA 7701 and 7700 (operated by Qantas)

QFF denied my request for points !
UA denied my request as SA (their partner) used Qantas !

UA advised me at first that UA (with the original docs of proof ) sent in to UA Sydney office, will contact SAA to request credit from QFF and so allow me the points on UA mileage plus.
Now UA (philipines call centre) says NO GO.

Is there an ombudsman for this sort of thing in the airline industry as the helpful replies lack any resolution.

Thanks again

 

[Mwenenzi]

Is there an ombudsman for this sort of thing in the airline industry as the helpful replies lack any resolution

As in the post above ALL the airlines have acted in accordance with their Freq Flyer Program rules. IMHO you will not get any freq flyer miles from QF or UA

 

[AnonymousCoward]

The itinerary says the flight is SA 7701 and 7700 (operated by Qantas)

QFF denied my request for points !

Here are the rules for earning QFF points:
Frequent Flyer - About the Program - Terms & Conditions
Note that SAA is not listed as a carrier where you can earn QFF points

UA denied my request as SA (their partner) used Qantas !

Here are the rules for earning UA miles:
United Airlines - South African Airways
Note that is states that "Mileage accrual and redemption is possible only on scheduled flights operated by the airline partner."

As the flights you took were operated by QANTAS, you are unable to earn UA miles.

Is there an ombudsman for this sort of thing in the airline industry as the helpful replies lack any resolution.

Maybe if you jump up and down enough, someone will give you some points. But at the moment everyone has acted in accordance with the rules, and you aren't entitled to any points except in SAA's own Voyager program. The situation is unfortunate, but that doesn't make it any less real.

If your travel agent or similar had advised you a particular way, and you relied on their advice, then you may be able to get compensation from them.

However if you were the one that choose to fly on an SAA flight number, then unfortunately you've probably put yourself into this situation.

 

[Flashback]

If your travel agent or similar had advised you a particular way, and you relied on their advice, then you may be able to get compensation from them.

I would not be expecting compensation from the TA if said scenario is true.

 

[AnonymousCoward]

I would not be expecting compensation from the TA if said scenario is true.

I wouldn't be hopeful either. But I suppose we don't know which country the ticket was bought it. And potentially if a purchaser had relied on advice, which brought them detriment, they may be able to claim something from their supplier. I suppose it all depends on the laws of the relevant country/state/whatever.

 

[Rona]

I guess I give up as no-one is saying there is an ombudsman for loyalty programs. !
Thanks for the feedback
Rona

 

[trooper]

No there isn't..

But even if there was I doubt you'd get the outcome you want...

It is a general rule (may be some individual exceptions for weird/one off airline "partnerships") that you can't go beyond partner operated flights...

So... As an NZ FF member..

I CAN get credits for NZ operated flights

I CAN get credit for *A airline operated flights.

BUT...

I CAN NOT get credit for non partner operated flights.. even if they have a *A airline flight # attached.

That is a "Step too far"....:mrgreen:

 

[oz_mark]

I guess I give up as no-one is saying there is an ombudsman for loyalty programs. !
Thanks for the feedback
Rona

No, and I am not sure how you would go even if there was - as it seems to me that the published rules have been applied correctly in this case. The only place I could think you could go would be your state consumer protection agency, but even so, I don't think you would get much joy.

 

[NM]

No, and I am not sure how you would go even if there was ...

I am sure. Rona would not get any success and would immediately be referred to the published terms and conditions of the FF programs concerned, which would be deemed to apply and also be deemed to be not misleading.