Lufthansa Group Partner with Virgin Australia ??)

[Bagpuss]

Came across this. Unsure if it is a mistake as I havent seen comment elsewhere....

Lufthansa Group Partner with Virgin Australia | RoundAbout Travel

Passengers travelling on Lufthansa, SWISS and Austrian Airlines multi-continent global fares now have more choice thanks to a new partnership with Virgin Australia. The new partnership gives Australian customers more route options out of Australia plus the opportunity to earn Velocity Points and...

www.roundabouttravel.com.au

 

[dajop]

Sounds like a fare cooperation (adding VA as an option to existing fare that already allows various carriers, such as QF, SQ and others, to be used on the sectors between Australia and Asia or Australia and the US). Nothing more nothing less. The opportunity to earn VA points and status credits, probably just refers to the VA sectors.

 

[ozstamps]

LH are founder member of Star Alliance.

Be DARN nice if Virgin joined! (Ansett of course were full members until their demise)

 

[henrus]

Explains why I was seeing cheap LH Europe to Australia fares via LAX (with the LAX to AU on Virgin). I doubt this'll turn into a fully blown agreement but one can only hope.

 

[HS-TQE]

Came across this. Unsure if it is a mistake as I havent seen comment elsewhere....

Lufthansa Group Partner with Virgin Australia | RoundAbout Travel

Passengers travelling on Lufthansa, SWISS and Austrian Airlines multi-continent global fares now have more choice thanks to a new partnership with Virgin Australia. The new partnership gives Australian customers more route options out of Australia plus the opportunity to earn Velocity Points and...

www.roundabouttravel.com.au

I think this is just an "interline" agreement/fare where you can book 1 itinerary under both carriers and they will check through each other's bags at a mutually agreed connecting point.
No FF/Points agreement for interline only arrangements.

This is nothing new, most rivals from other alliances generally honor the interline onto each other (E.g VA/AA or QF/DL) to name two examples.

 

[jase05]

LH are founder member of Star Alliance.

Be DARN nice if Virgin joined! (Ansett of course were full members until their demise)

Can’t see it happening and personally I’d much prefer they went SkyTeam if they are going to join an alliance at all

 

[ozstamps]

Star is a brilliant Alliance - have flown several million miles on them literally, and they have some VERY small bit players in it so an ozzie entrant would make sense since the Air NZ divorce - they have tiddlers like -

• ADRIA Airways
• Aegean Airlines
• Croatia Airlines, etc

Virgin would be a very nice fit. Had several million Sky Team miles and flew them a lot too, but not remotely in the same league as Star.

 

[jase05]

Star is a brilliant Alliance - have flown several million miles on them literally, and they have some VERY small bit players in it so an ozzie entrant would make sense since the Air NZ divorce-

• ADRIA Airways
• Aegean Airlines
• Croatia Airlines

Virgin would be a very nice fit. Had several million Sky Team miles and flew them a lot too, but not remotely in the same league as Star.

I’d imagine there is no way on Earth NZ would allow VA to join. It would also hurt VA’s relationship with DL and I think they should be tightening their friendship with DL.

 

[ozstamps]

Air NZ voice would be a VERY small burp within SA. They are a bit player, and have zero intra oz network to protect.

Key STAR players like SQ, LH and UA woud love the feeder and code share traffic, and integrated point to point ticketing within oz. As they all did in the Ansett days, to good effect.

Last time I looked Virgin flew to the USA on their own metal, so what DL thinks is no big deal. The UA network is now larger than Delta's in Airline Seat Miles (ASM) so nothing changes for Virgin in USA reach.

In the last quarter, according to Russell and the respective airline earnings calls, United had 73.2B ASMs. American, by contrast, had 72.3B ASMs while Delta had 71.8B.

Much of United's recent seat growth has been the result of aggressive route expansion plans recently set out by the company's executive team. Last year, the carrier shared its intent to aggressively open new routes both domestically and internationally, aiming to scoop up latent demand for any open airline seats.

Even this month the airline touted its expanded capabilities on the east coast with the announcement that it now has the most seats available between the New York City area and London.

Delta And United Surpass American As Largest Carriers In The United States

Back in 2015 when American Airlines and US Airways finally completed their merger the newly formed airline earned the prestigious title of the largest airline in the country. Now, that throne has been taken by both Delta and United.

www.forbes.com

 

[HS-TQE]

Air NZ voice would be a VERY small burp within SA. They are a bit player, and have zero intra oz network to protect.

Key STAR players like SQ, LH and UA woud love the feeder and code share traffic, and integrated point to point ticketing within oz. As they all did in the Ansett days, to good effect.

Problem is that ALL Star members are required to unanimously vote new members in. NZ along with UA will use their veto rights to block any (unlikely) VA application.

Source (of AI's Star Alliance history): Spurned by Star Alliance, Air India Edges towards OneWorld

This in addition to the alleged accusations reported in the media that NZ had allegedly demanded that VA "give up all international", which led to all other VA shareholders siding with JB at the time of the heated board meeting, prior to NZ walking out and resigning the following day.

In addition, Star Alliance had already came out and said they are not interested in chasing up VA on the back of the NZ divorce, suggesting that they know that NZ will block any VA application when it comes to the vote.

Source: Star Alliance says it won't chase Virgin Australia to join up

 

[ozstamps]

Was not aware voting needed to be unanimous for a new SA member.

HOWEVER that article you quote from last year indicates many SA members were blocking Air India which looked headed for One world.

I've flown them often since as a Star partner and take 6 flights with them later this month.

With Alliances, the sands move pretty fast at times.

Press reports above go back years.

3 months back this was Scurrah's view -

Virgin Australia CEO Paul Scurrah says that the option to sign up for a global alliance such as Star Alliance or SkyTeam remains on the table for the airline’s “future international network strategy”, but is far from a cure-all for the troubled airline.

“I think the obvious upside is that there is a branded network, it’s a little more obvious about who you’re aligned with,” he reflects. “So not having that Star Alliance, SkyTeam or Oneworld brand on our network makes it a little harder for a customer to understand who we are aligned with.”

Virgin Australia CEO: alliances are no 'silver bullet'

Newly-minted Virgin Australia chief Paul Scurrah takes a measured approach to the question of joining Star Alliance or SkyTeam.

www.executivetraveller.com

 

[pangwen]

Problem is that ALL Star members are required to unanimously vote new members in. NZ along with UA will use their veto rights to block any (unlikely) VA application.

Source (of AI's Star Alliance history): Spurned by Star Alliance, Air India Edges towards OneWorld

This in addition to the alleged accusations reported in the media that NZ had allegedly demanded that VA "give up all international", which led to all other VA shareholders siding with JB at the time of the heated board meeting, prior to NZ walking out and resigning the following day.

In addition, Star Alliance had already came out and said they are not interested in chasing up VA on the back of the NZ divorce, suggesting that they know that NZ will block any VA application when it comes to the vote.

Source: Star Alliance says it won't chase Virgin Australia to join up

I recall reading somewhere that in addition to VA's more recent bad blood with NZ, VA also faces some (older) grudges against it by UA - possibly due to ditching UA and partnering with DL back in the day?

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

They (VA) could form an alliance outside of *A, as they currently do have with as mentioned above, DL without joining Skyteam, or as they have with SQ without joining *A, or their code share agreement with NH ANA, where I could book a straight through ticket to get to Tokyo from Adelaide on the ANA website, with a placing flight ADL - PER with VA, and then on lead to the NH flight from PER to NRT.

 

[odysseus]

Star is a brilliant Alliance - have flown several million miles on them literally, and they have some VERY small bit players in it so an ozzie entrant would make sense since the Air NZ divorce - they have tiddlers like -

• ADRIA Airways
• Aegean Airlines
• Croatia Airlines, etc

Virgin would be a very nice fit. Had several million Sky Team miles and flew them a lot too, but not remotely in the same league as Star.

Star used to be better than it is.

As far as your examples, Adria is no more since they went bankrupt 30 Sep 2019 and closed. No loss imo and Virgin is a far better standard than they were. Be happy with what we have.

 

[ozstamps]

My point was there was MANY tiddlers already there as Alliance Members - Brussels Airlines for goodness sakes. Virgin is more viable than many in there.

SA was never better than it is in my view, as no major airlines have left.

 

[dajop]

Can’t see it happening and personally I’d much prefer they went SkyTeam if they are going to join an alliance at all

The trouble is there is no logical alliance to join ....

Skyteam would be great for the Americas (DL, AM, LATAM..)

Star would be good for NE/SE Asia (SQ, TG, NH, OZ, BR) + Europe (LH group + LO + TK + SK) + Africa (ET, SA, probably not so much MS).

For their owners .... EY wouldn't want TK or SV, or probably even ET. HN wouldn't want CA or MU. SQ probably wouldn't be keen on them partnering with VN or GA. .....

 

[HS-TQE]

3 months back this was Scurrah's view -

Virgin Australia CEO Paul Scurrah says that the option to sign up for a global alliance such as Star Alliance or SkyTeam remains on the table for the airline’s “future international network strategy”, but is far from a cure-all for the troubled airline.

“I think the obvious upside is that there is a branded network, it’s a little more obvious about who you’re aligned with,” he reflects. “So not having that Star Alliance, SkyTeam or Oneworld brand on our network makes it a little harder for a customer to understand who we are aligned with.”

Virgin Australia CEO: alliances are no 'silver bullet'

Newly-minted Virgin Australia chief Paul Scurrah takes a measured approach to the question of joining Star Alliance or SkyTeam.

www.executivetraveller.com

Scurrah also listed the same concerns as his predecessor when it came to Alliances in general. Not to mention his relationship with Delta is the same as the previous 2 CEOs (Godfrey and Borghetti). VA/DL are joined at the hip.

Scurrah's concerns re: Alliances:
“One downside for us is the disruption it would cause to our current alliances, whether that would be worth the investment.”

“We have the advantage of being able to strike bi-laterals with individual airlines that can help make the biggest and strongest network, regardless of alliances.

“We've got an amazing partnership with Delta, with seamless and reciprocal recognition of our high-value guests, access to the lounges, everything you'd expect if you were flying those routes on an alliance.”

And as previously mentioned, there is a lot of hostility between VA and NZ/UA, considering both "enemies" had allegedly wanted VA to dump all international and "dump Delta".

VA is not likely to meet their alleged demands considering the strengthened partnership with DL and an upcoming partnership with AM (Aeromexico), both from SkyTeam.

As Scurrah mentions:
"If anything, Scurrah is interested to see if Virgin’s DIY alliance model can be fine-tuned within its existing framework. “What is it (our customers) like about alliances that we think we can replicate, without being in one?” he ponders.

“I do think that we've got a uniquely better offering at the moment by not branding as a member of an individual alliance” he circles back."

VA and UA also doesn't have an active interline agreement for that matter (they've previously interlined until that agreement expired few years ago and it wasn't renewed). VA has interlines with AA and AS in addition to their JV partnership with DL.

The more likely scenario is that VA is likely to remain outside, with partnerships with DL, AM and VS (all either SkyTeam or related in the case of VS), and the Star partnerships with SQ and NH. VA also has unaligned partnerships in EY and HA.

So naturally VA is likely to continue developing partnerships across both SkyTeam and Star Alliance while remaining outside.

 

[HS-TQE]

For their owners .... EY wouldn't want TK or SV, or probably even ET. HN wouldn't want CA or MU. SQ probably wouldn't be keen on them partnering with VN or GA. .....

SQ and GA had recently inked a codeshare/FF agreement between SIN and CGK/DPS.

VA/GA are currently interline-only partners, so based on that, I would assume SQ would have no problems with VA codesharing with GA on the basis the flights are between AU and CGK/DPS only most likely.

SQ may likely object if it's a "wider" partnership beyond CGK/DPS.

Singapore Airlines and Garuda now codesharing on Singapore-Jakarta flights – Business Traveller

Travellers flying with either airline now have access to the two carriers’ combined 18 daily flights between Singapore and Jakarta, one of the busiest international air routes in the world

www.businesstraveller.com

 

[CPMaverick]

Alliances are DYING. Big airlines are making partnerships outside or across alliances, largely ignoring their own alliances.

QF just did a deal with AF/KLM, one of the biggest members of Skyteam.
QF has favored partnerships with EK over oneworld partners for a long time now.
NZ has partnered with Cathay for many destinations, esp in China, ignoring *A members there
EY and EK have disrupted the alliance model and will continue to do so
LATAM just left oneworld
China Southern just left Skyteam

VA will never join one. It's expensive and would hurt their existing partnerships while not necessarily offering them anything in return. VA could be in *A and UA could ignore them or strongarm them into a sub-par deal. EY's stake is problematic. The poor relationship with NZ is problematic.

There are almost no guaranteed benefits in an alliance for the airline. Lounge access & boarding processes are fixed and would be nice. But miles earning and redemption are not guaranteed, save for refundable tickets.

Skyteam has really good coverage from Australia-Asia, but as a Delta FF, I can't earn anything on half the partners and even in paid J, earning rates are garbage.

Just stop already, it will never happen. It's not the 1990s and airlines are leaving, not joining.

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

Its odd that (even) with the VA and NZ FF divorce, they are still sharing revenue, ie, if I want to fly Au - certain airports in NZ, I can still fly ADL - east coast, then any of the 3 each coast international airports to AKL, and then still fly (Air)NZ on a VA ticket, domestically within NZ, no VFF points or SC of course, as the domestic flights within NZ have NZ flight numbers.