J Saver award availability to AMS (etc)

[Jack_OC]

As discussed on another thread, the points required for an SQ J Saver award from AUS to AMS, CPH or FCO are lower than for other EU destinations, apparently due to the inferior hard product on those routes. I'd be happy with that though, and I'm looking to get my family of 4 over to Europe next April. I could live with pretty much any EU destination, as I will just add on a cheapo Y hop to my final destination.

The weird thing is though, I can find basically no J Saver awards available to those "cheaper" destinations around that time. But checking on ExpertFlyer, it seems there are few if any J seats sold on any of the flights I'm looking at. There is also no problem with availability into FRA or LHR around that time, so I don't think the problem is that I'm looking too far out. So I'm beginning to think Saver J awards don't really exist on the AMS/CPH/FCO routes at all. Any thoughts?

 

[albatross710]

So I'm beginning to think Saver J awards don't really exist on the AMS/CPH/FCO routes at all. Any thoughts?

Thanks for bringing my attention to the discount on these routes. I've now included these destinations into my plans for Mrs Albatross710 & I in October this year. I can see availability for travel SIN-AMS but nothing on this route for us returning in November.

Without any knowledge of what is going on at SQ I'll suggest one reason might be that they might be bringing them back into line with the other European destinations when they have all of aircraft upgraded. They will hope to get those Saver redemptions at the 180k miles instead of the lower discounted levels.

Capacity controls? maybe they want to see the redemptions on other routes first.

I have seem interesting movements though on the SIN-ZRH sector. I was playing with options on this sector for 2 x F Savers for us in Suites. Last week there was nothing 5 days either side of our date. This week we have options on our date plus a few days either side.

I mention this because it can change for all sorts of reason, many of which we will never understand. That's all part of the game.

 

[Jack_OC]

Thanks for the extra info. There are definitely some quirks there - eg I searched for rtn flights from MEL-FRA and got nothing, but then searched for two one ways on the same dates (for the same total number of points) and they were available. Also, I have found a couple of examples where there is nothing showing up for MEL-FRA, but when I search for MEL-SIN and SIN-FRA separately, there is availability on the exact same flights. In that case though, it costs a lot more points if you split into two bookings, so that might be deliberate.

My issue is that I don't quite have enough pts for FRA etc. There is the option of paying for the additional points, but they're not cheap ($40 per 1,000 pts). That makes the difference between FRA and AMS about $1,000 in cash per person.

An alternative strategy is to wait until I accumulate more points, but I suspect it may be difficult to get 4 J savers on the same flights if I don't book way in advance.

 

[albatross710]

An alternative strategy is to wait until I accumulate more points, but I suspect it may be difficult to get 4 J savers on the same flights if I don't book way in advance.

One strategy that I have used when trying to book flights without enough miles is to use a deliberate unwanted waitlist. If I don't have enough miles, then I do a booking for two confirmed flights plus a token waitlist alternate sector. The website adds me to the Waitlist, adds me to the confirmed flights and has't deducted the miles. Then do another booking with a similar confirmed/waitlist arrangement.

Another one that worked for me this week was via the call centre when I couldn't get the above to work. They issued me a confirmed booking which needs to be ticketed about three weeks before travel in 6 months time. Once again I'm holding confirmed seats but no miles deducted until I'm ready to ticket.

This does give some explanation to how fluid award availability can be. I might not get enough points and cancel, or decide to travel another day or decide to travel to another destination. All of these will result in awards becoming available again on flights which might currently return as unavailable.

I have found a couple of examples where there is nothing showing up for MEL-FRA, but when I search for MEL-SIN and SIN-FRA separately, there is availability on the exact same flights. In that case though, it costs a lot more points if you split into two bookings, so that might be deliberate.

I came across this last year when trying some booking to middle east. I could get redemption fligths from BNE but when I try to build the same SIN-DXB flights into an itinerary starting from MNL it just wouldn't work. I have a feeling SQ are much smarter at yield management and airline marketing that Albatross710.

 

[prozac]

I have complained recently to SQ that they are simply not making J Saver available to AMS, MUC, FRA, and CPH anymore even booking in off-season. I flew Dec 30 last year AMS-SYD in J and cabin was only 40% full. I tried to book a J Saver on that date this week to see if there was any availability. There wasn't.
Edit: Interestingly there is availability today for 30 Dec.....????
I am even having difficulty purchasing a Y ticket (in October) and upgrading.
This has now got me looking at Malaysian who are offering J returns to the same destinations for 102,000 points.

 

[prozac]

OK, just got off the phone to Krisfler and I am quite stressed just trying to understand the 2 different SQ staffers I spoke with. I can understand that perhaps this is part of the training process to expose them to different languages but really SQ need to spend the money on training and work on staff members accent. Their English grammar was quite good IF I could understand the accents!!! Onboard I don't have these problems so call centre must be a training area. Upshot, I do not like calling.
Anyway the long and short of it is there are no available upgrades available through September and from what I could understand November. Hell this is frustrating. I just think SQ are not making seats available!

 

[browski]

You may have some interest in this link if your J saver fares do not come through.
http://www.australianfrequentflyer....-airfares/china-airlines-bkk-ams-j-48950.html

 

[prozac]

Thx browski, I am now looking very seriously at alternatives as there is no point at all accumulating points and status when flying business if you are unable to use them when you wish to fly for recreation. Very disappointed with SQ right now. They are happy to take my money when I am flying full freight on business but imo have cut back to the bone available redemption fares or even upgrade fares.

So how do you get SYD to BKK to pick up your flight?

Edit: So have you flown longhaul with China?

 

[browski]

Thx browski, I am now looking very seriously at alternatives as there is no point at all accumulating points and status when flying business if you are unable to use them when you wish to fly for recreation. Very disappointed with SQ right now. They are happy to take my money when I am flying full freight on business but imo have cut back to the bone available redemption fares or even upgrade fares.

So how do you get SYD to BKK to pick up your flight?

Edit: So have you flown longhaul with China?

I have flown J with China Airlines a few times from BKK-TPE. They were on a 747 and quite good.
SYD-BKK: possible the Emirates flight is your best bet OR fly Jetstar Starclass from SYD-MEL-BKK.

 

[burmans]

OK, just got off the phone to Krisfler and I am quite stressed just trying to understand the 2 different SQ staffers I spoke with. I can understand that perhaps this is part of the training process to expose them to different languages but really SQ need to spend the money on training and work on staff members accent. Their English grammar was quite good IF I could understand the accents!!! Onboard I don't have these problems so call centre must be a training area. Upshot, I do not like calling.
Anyway the long and short of it is there are no available upgrades available through September and from what I could understand November. Hell this is frustrating. I just think SQ are not making seats available!

Well I personally found SQ one of the easiest FF program to deal with and that include many with English as their supposed first language (though some may question that statement re US airlines)

 

[moffat39]

I also have problems booking J Saver BNE to AMS in early May next year. On some days there is waitlist on the SIN/AMS and other days not even waitlist available for saver fares. Most days have avilability for standard fares. No problems with BNE to SIN leg with a choice of flight times.

I flew BNE to AMS in May last year on a J saver which I booked in August 2011 so will keep trying. I also tried BNE to CPH and nothing available for a J saver.

May be that with the refit of the 200ER to same seating as the 380/300ER they are looking at changing the points required and and until they decide no seats available for April/May next year?

 

[Gogo65]

I am currently looking at booking a flight from FCO to SYD. Looks like I can get FCO to SIN ok as a saver award, but SIN-SYD Is wait listed, however the seats are available if I do two seperate bookings.
the weird thing is that even though the FCO-SIN is available as a saver it is wait listed as a standard award. Is this normal?? I would have thought a saver was wait listed before a standard award??

 

[Jack_OC]

Thanks for all of the replies. I've just booked MEL-FRA one way, got 4 saver J fares on the same flights for a total of 323k pts plus $1700, so I'm pretty happy with that.

My original plan was 3 rtn saver J awards from MEL-AMS, and then I'd pay for the 4th ticket. But since there was no availability on that route and more points were required to FRA, I changed plan. We're now going to come back with EY instead, and since I can get 2 J awards with them, the total cost of the trip will be similar to Plan A.

 

[Gogo65]

I am currently looking at booking a flight from FCO to SYD. Looks like I can get FCO to SIN ok as a saver award, but SIN-SYD Is wait listed, however the seats are available if I do two seperate bookings.
the weird thing is that even though the FCO-SIN is available as a saver it is wait listed as a standard award. Is this normal?? I would have thought a saver was wait listed before a standard award??

Hoping someone can help me in regards to above.
I have now booked the FCO-SYD, confirmed on FCO-SIN however wait listed on SIN-SYD despite their being plenty of availability if booking this seperately. Is it worth a phone call? Very frustrating to see availability but only have access to it if booking as two sectors.
thanks!

 

[Jack_OC]

Hoping someone can help me in regards to above.
I have now booked the FCO-SYD, confirmed on FCO-SIN however wait listed on SIN-SYD despite their being plenty of availability if booking this seperately. Is it worth a phone call? Very frustrating to see availability but only have access to it if booking as two sectors.
thanks!

Worth a phone call, but no idea if that will get you anywhere. And bear in mind that if they manage to sort your booking out on the phone, you won't get the 15% online discount.

I don't know why, but this is something they seem to do. Maybe it comes down to them only wanting to give an award seat on the SIN-SYD flight for a higher number of points (as it will cost more if booked separately).

However, I had another strange one while booking my flights, which suggest that's not necessarily the reason. All 4 MEL-SIN flights were available as standalone J Savers, but if I looked for MEL-LHR I had a choice of only 2 of those 4 options, and with MEL-FRA only 1. All on the same day. Since MEL-LHR and MEL-FRA cost the same number of points, I can't see any reason why the Saver availability on the MEL-SIN leg would differ between the two, but it did.

 

[hgwells01]

OK, just got off the phone to Krisfler and I am quite stressed just trying to understand the 2 different SQ staffers I spoke with. I can understand that perhaps this is part of the training process to expose them to different languages but really SQ need to spend the money on training and work on staff members accent. Their English grammar was quite good IF I could understand the accents!!! Onboard I don't have these problems so call centre must be a training area. Upshot, I do not like calling.
Anyway the long and short of it is there are no available upgrades available through September and from what I could understand November. Hell this is frustrating. I just think SQ are not making seats available!

I had a very helpful call centre lass trying to help me but I couldn't understand her, does anyone else notice how their recorded messages whilst you wait are so distorted? In the end after me not being able to understand her she asked if she could ring me back me back, lo and behold, much clearer and I understood her perfectly. I think their ph system distorts their voices, I have no problems when they call me back and I think some staff are aware of it and offer to call back to get around it.

 

[albatross710]

I had a very helpful call centre lass trying to help me but I couldn't understand her, does anyone else notice how their recorded messages whilst you wait are so distorted? In the end after me not being able to understand her she asked if she could ring me back me back, lo and behold, much clearer and I understood her perfectly. I think their ph system distorts their voices, I have no problems when they call me back and I think some staff are aware of it and offer to call back to get around it.

Same. When I call it certainly sounds like a lower bandwidth VOIP call. It gets worse because sometimes I'm using a lower bandwidth VOIP service as well. When they return my call on my mobile it is a much better line.

 

[prozac]

Same. When I call it certainly sounds like a lower bandwidth VOIP call. It gets worse because sometimes I'm using a lower bandwidth VOIP service as well. When they return my call on my mobile it is a much better line.

That's handy to know but it won't get you a J saver to AMS, FRA, MUN or CPH any time soon. No availability through to Christmas and looking forward to April next year same. I have previously found it an easy matter to book post Xmas. Even my travel agent says they are witholding redemption tickets. My solution has been to book redemption with MH at half the number of points. I just wish I hadn't put so much effort into achieving status in SQ now that they are making it so difficult to redeem.

 

[Jack_OC]

That's handy to know but it won't get you a J saver to AMS, FRA, MUN or CPH any time soon. No availability through to Christmas and looking forward to April next year same. I have previously found it an easy matter to book post Xmas. Even my travel agent says they are witholding redemption tickets. My solution has been to book redemption with MH at half the number of points. I just wish I hadn't put so much effort into achieving status in SQ now that they are making it so difficult to redeem.

Did you mean to include FRA in that list? As I mentioned previously, I've just booked 4 J Saver awards on the same flights from MEL-FRA for April. And I just looked a few random dates now - there is some J Saver availability from MEL-FRA 2 weeks from now, also in Sept and even in Dec.

I also saw good availability to LHR when I was looking for April. I only found major problems with availability on the routes where it's cheaper to redeem, ie AMS, CPH and FCO.

By the way, I looked into MH as well, but I didn't think it was half the number of points? I thought it was 102k trn to AMS with MH, versus 136k with SQ? And I thought the fuel charges etc were higher with MH, but could be wrong about that. The main reason I didn't go forward with MH in the end was that I had a load of points with Citi that I could transfer to SQ but not MH.

 

[prozac]

Did you mean to include FRA in that list? As I mentioned previously, I've just booked 4 J Saver awards on the same flights from MEL-FRA for April. And I just looked a few random dates now - there is some J Saver availability from MEL-FRA 2 weeks from now, also in Sept and even in Dec.

I also saw good availability to LHR when I was looking for April. I only found major problems with availability on the routes where it's cheaper to redeem, ie AMS, CPH and FCO.

By the way, I looked into MH as well, but I didn't think it was half the number of points? I thought it was 102k trn to AMS with MH, versus 136k with SQ? And I thought the fuel charges etc were higher with MH, but could be wrong about that. The main reason I didn't go forward with MH in the end was that I had a load of points with Citi that I could transfer to SQ but not MH.

Yes I meant to include FRA. I was surprised when I saw you post you secured 4!!! J tickets. Well done. I hesitated a month or more back to book (160k returns FRA, CPH) when I found AMS was not an option. Next I checked points requird was 255k. Within about 2 weeks everything up to Xmas disappeared. Maybe I should get you to do my bookings. I am certain the experience on MH will not match SQ but I have my fingers crossed. I did not consider going via LON (or MAN) and connecting to AMS, maybe I should have. I thought, maybe incorrectly that LON impossed a high environmental tax based on the cost of your fare so that influenced my decision.
The taxes etc with MH amount to $903 v. SQ last I paid about $846 but I put this down to the AUD exchange rate weakness.