J.B. bringing VA under Virgin Blue banner

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Dee Thom

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It's started, J.B. is bringing VA into the Virgin Blue stable so that it is not a stand alone business.
The integration of VA, and management changes comes as Borgehetti is expected to announce a new brand for the Virgin Blue Group Airlines including Pacific Blue, and Polynesian Blue, plus a new dedicated Business Class, and further service enhancements for the airline.
Any ideas as to what the new BRAND will be ??????????

Cheers Dee
 
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Quite a few changes are in the wind:

Two class cabins which are separated with full service
New Uniforms
Lounge Refurbs in MEL/BNE and SYD (minor)
Widebodies before the board (expect 767) and later turboprops
Expand velocity membership beyond current 2M members.
 
There are a huge number of topics about this and probably more springing up discussing the new things that are coming on board for the Virgin Blue / Australia group.

I will comment though: wide bodies - probably 767s? Where will they get them from (e.g. buy them from other airlines, buy them new, lease them...)? And why 767s (instead of holding out for 787s or even going to Airbus)?

And why turboprops when one of the supposed advantages DJ were marketing of their e-Jets was that they were preferable to the smaller, noisier turboprops? Yes, I know this had something to do with economic factors, but.....
 
I will comment though: wide bodies - probably 767s? Where will they get them from (e.g. buy them from other airlines, buy them new, lease them...)? And why 767s (instead of holding out for 787s or even going to Airbus)?

And why turboprops when one of the supposed advantages DJ were marketing of their e-Jets was that they were preferable to the smaller, noisier turboprops? Yes, I know this had something to do with economic factors, but.....

Half of the DJ engineering team are certified on the 767 and they will be new, as for the turboprops, they will allow for DJ to compete for business they cannot do with the jets, such as GLT.


I believe the 767s are early delivery and would be quite old by the time the 787 is available for DJ.
 
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as for the turboprops, they will allow for DJ to compete for business they cannot do with the jets, such as GLT.

But why not first try and strengthen cooperation with the people who focus on running turboprops than completely starting up a new operation? I am thinking Rex and Skywest here (who DJ already have some ties with, moreso the latter). Could be mutually beneficial - and for DJ/VA, open up more destinations without having to make capital and training investments, and at the same time coordination of frequencies could strengthen existing regional destinations (eg MQL, ABX etc).

Or is that getting too close to becoming AN MKIII.....
 
But why not first try and strengthen cooperation with the people who focus on running turboprops than completely starting up a new operation? I am thinking Rex and Skywest here (who DJ already have some ties with, moreso the latter). Could be mutually beneficial - and for DJ/VA, open up more destinations without having to make capital and training investments, and at the same time coordination of frequencies could strengthen existing regional destinations (eg MQL, ABX etc).

Or is that getting too close to becoming AN MKIII.....

The regional flights are subsidized by the state governments, who award the contract to an operator not a codesharer as such, which is why you dont see much cooperation on many of the routes the propjets are doing.
 
The regional flights are subsidized by the state governments, who award the contract to an operator not a codesharer as such, which is why you dont see much cooperation on many of the routes the propjets are doing.

Not all regional routes, surely? MEL-MQL, MEL-GFF, MEL-ABX, MEL-MGB, MEL-BWT are four that immediately come to mind that surely would not be subsidised by state governments (four of them are interstate and one extremely competitive). And are routes with multiple operators like SYD-DBO, SYD-PQQ, SYD-WGA, SYD-ABX really subsidised by state governments(deals with local councils not withstanding)?
 
Not all regional routes, surely? MEL-MQL, MEL-GFF, MEL-ABX, MEL-MGB, MEL-BWT are four that immediately come to mind that surely would not be subsidised by state governments (four of them are interstate and one extremely competitive). And are routes with multiple operators like SYD-DBO, SYD-PQQ, SYD-WGA, SYD-ABX really subsidised by state governments(deals with local councils not withstanding)?

Air services in Northern Territory, Tasmania and Victoria are fully deregulated. In South Australia two smaller routes are regulated without subsidy, by licensing them to single operators, while the remainder of the network is fully deregulated. In Queensland some routes are regulated without subsidy while others, to small centres in the more remote areas of that state, are regulated and subsidised. Still other higher volume routes are deregulated.

Western Australia licenses all routes, with only one of those services currently being subsidised. Certain service levels, including airfares are monitored on regulated routes in QLD, SA and WA. All interstate (or cross-border) air routes, including the main trunk services such as Sydney-Melbourne and Sydney-Brisbane come under Commonwealth Government responsibility and are fully deregulated. Its also important to note that both REX and Skywest are majority foreign owned. NSW also has some interesting regulations that explain why DJ are not in to much of a hurry until 2012/13:

The threshold for a route being allocated to one operator only by licensing is that the route operates at or below 50,000 passengers per annum
The 50,000 threshold was adopted in October 2002
Five-year licences (March 2008 - March 2013) currently apply
Where regulated routes now exceed the 50,000 level, the five-year commitment takes precedence over deregulating the routes
Regulated route licences will run their full term, subject to licence conditions.

The Government has committed to support of $44.7 million over four years through the Remote Air Services Subsidy Scheme (RASS) and $20 million over four years through the Remote Aerodrome Safety Program (RASP) for remote aerodromes and services essential for the social and economic well being of the communities they serve. In the 2009-10 Budget the Government provided $3.0 million to begin the process of upgrading airstrips in remote parts of the country, serviced by the RASS Scheme, through the Remote Aviation Infrastructure Fund (RAIF). Such a large pot of money would be hard to ignore if you are DJ, I dont think its the more popular NSW/VIC routes they are keen to get, its more than likely the capability to service QLD and WA where there is more activity from mining and less restrictive slot practices at the capital cities that are friendly to lower capacity aircraft movements.
 
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Such a large pot of money would be hard to ignore if you are DJ.

But the sums of money you mention - on a per annum basis - don't seem that significant compared to Virgin Blue's annual revenue ($2b?). And would just add another distraction.

With ZL I thought ABX, BNK, DBO, GFF, LSY, OAG & WGA routes are all deregulated (or are these in the 2008-13 period you talk about?) Leaving SYD-MIM/MYA/BHQ/GFN/TRO/NRR as the regulated (single operator routes) that they operate plus north QLD routes?

It just seems as an outsider trying to rebrand intl/dom, launch a dom J class, bring in widebodies & turboprops seems to be a huge ask, and turboprops something that could really suck up management time for little return - unless strategically designed to really weaken QF link ? In other words "bigger fish to fry than this?"
 
Passengers looking to through connect are a big money spinner for airlines, if they can get subsidised as well then that is a bigger money spinner, SYD and MEL have been trying to move country services to other airports for years and get the same resistance all the time for that reason.

Have a look at the success regional airlines have had over the long term, none, they have all been folded into QF or previously AN to survive, DJ are halfway there already with the eJets, its not that much bigger a step to add propjets. You also need to look at the numbers:

regionalpax.jpg
 
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Passengers looking to through connect are a big money spinner for airlines

Not wrong there. As a personal example, I do occassionally travel SIN-MQL. From SIN, it is usually cheaper by the order of $100-200 or 15% to purchase the same flights separately on QF website than as a throughfare from SIN. Many would not, so that would be $100-200 straight to the bottom line.

ps I do enjoy the debate!
 
Half of the DJ engineering team are certified on the 767 and they will be new, as for the turboprops, they will allow for DJ to compete for business they cannot do with the jets, such as GLT.


I believe the 767s are early delivery and would be quite old by the time the 787 is available for DJ.

Why not 767-400s, would get good deals on them.
 
Quite a few changes are in the wind:

Two class cabins which are separated with full service



Markis10...what makes you say their cabins will be full service?? My understanding is there will be no full service in Economy at all...unless you know something else? :confused:
 
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Markis10...what makes you say their cabins will be full service?? My understanding is there will be no full service in Economy at all...unless you know something else? :confused:

The reported staff briefings have mentioned this, my info is third hand at best and hardly gospel, it could well be that it refers purely to the J cabin.
 
The reported staff briefings have mentioned this, my info is third hand at best and hardly gospel, it could well be that it refers purely to the J cabin.

I can't see J.B. doing the full service in Y; J yes. They still have to cover a lot of JQ flight areas, and the only way is CHEAP in Y.
Feal their E-Jets pickup extra PAX from the QF-Link when flying in competition up the East Coast. Aussies have a Lurve of JETS.
No answer to what the new name DJ will go under? Will "Virgin" become VA? would the bearded one allow it to happen? Come on crazy dave, give us a clue..............

Cheers Dee
 
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Markis10...what makes you say their cabins will be full service?? My understanding is there will be no full service in Economy at all...unless you know something else? :confused:


Because right now in AU, full service means full service even in Y...

A lot of corp travellers want the perks and yet are forced to travel in Y by company policy.

I expect they will prob go the QFLink version of "full service" on the routes where the competition is JQ, aka - here is your lunch box (the QF link ones remind me of the lunch boxes I used to take to school) and can of coke...

The majors routes however I wouldn't be surprised to see proper full service, they are after all trying to take on QF at their own game.
 
Because right now in AU, full service means full service even in Y...

Of course, 'full service' is not a well defined term - any discussion should also state what you mean by 'full service.'
 
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