Is QFF Value Declining?

[robolb]

This year I didn't maintain my Gold status, hopefully back up next year. Or maybe not......

The difference has been interesting. No real change on the actual flying bit. But.......

It's now very hard for me to reach anyone at Qantas by phone. In fact I don't event try anymore.
And same with live chat........

Another interesting thing I noticed today, not status related, is upgrading on codeshare flights. A couple of years ago I flew Sydney - Paris on an Emirates codeshare (qantas ticket) and enjoyed upgrades. Now it seems upgrades are not available on flight above #199.

Not sure I get the sense of this. As it's no longer worth my while to book Qantas on such International, as it won't be Qantas metal all the way through, and hence no upgrade chance.

We'll probably fly Thai, and use Thai points. Or have I misunderstood the rules introduced in 2016?

One of the downsides of codeshare flights I guess.

 

[juddles]

... No real change on the actual flying bit. .....

But what is the spend? If you are spending the same Qantas is getting less...

 

[mannej]

You have never been able to use QFF points to upgrade on EK.

Yes there are tales of op-ups, but that isn't related to the value of QFF

 

[RichardMEL]

In terms of operational upgrades on Emirates flights, last year (I believe) EK changed the basis on which they apply such upgrades away from status and to fare basis and the like, which meant that those on cheaper fares, no matter the status, missed out, unlike prior years

in terms of value of QFF in this regard, previously prior the EK policy change (which is not related to QF per se) having QF Gold+ status could see upgrades come through so there was some value attached to status from that point of view,

but again these upgrades could never be guaranteed or confirmed any way, so not really a decision of QFF per se.

As for overall "value" of just about ALL loyalty schemes declining? Is the Pope Catholic?

Remember these schemes are for the benefit of those providing it, not their customers

 

[Pushka]

We enjoyed multiple upgrades on EK before last year as SG and WP but Emirates changed their rules last year.

 

[JohnK]

In my opinion QFF points are declining quite rapidly in value but in overall terms QFF is up there when I can get cheap fares to HKG and pre-allocate row 43 as a higher status member.

Then there is access to First lounges.

 

[muppet]

I agree the value of QFF is declining - but not for the reasons you suggest.

Value is declining quite simply:
- points earning declining
- points required for redemption increasing
- co-pay required for redemption increasing
- paid fares in economy and business declining (therefore relative value of points is even less)

That said - WP is still very valuable. First lounge access, domestic J lounge access and the ability to request award seat release.

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

Used to love QF myself, but slowly, ever so slowly, VA has been pinging my attention.
Having to pay just $29/$39 for an economy X row seat, which guarantees me just that bit of space/"luxury" vs QF, where of late, I have lost my "shadow" on Au dom flights!

 

[Pushka]

Used to love QF myself, but slowly, ever so slowly, VA has been pinging my attention.
Having to pay just $29/$39 for an economy X row seat, which guarantees me just that bit of space/"luxury" vs QF, where of late, I have lost my "shadow" on Au dom flights!

Poochie - shadows were never the deal with SG and even with WP it was never stated as a benefit.

 

[GoldCanyon340]

Having to pay just $29/$39 for an economy X row seat, which guarantees me just that bit of space/"luxury" vs QF, where of late, I have lost my "shadow" on Au dom flights!

You can't lose something you never had.

 

[JohnK]

Used to love QF myself, but slowly, ever so slowly, VA has been pinging my attention.
Having to pay just $29/$39 for an economy X row seat, which guarantees me just that bit of space/"luxury" vs QF, where of late, I have lost my "shadow" on Au dom flights!

Your luck has run out that's all.

I was on a BNE-SYD flight last Friday night with ~40-50 vacant seats. Both 4B and 4E were occupied. The middle seats in the next 4-5 rows were vacant. My wife in row 21 had a blocked seat.

I don't understand how you see value in a seat with a little extra leg room for $29/$39 for such a short flight.

 

[eminere]

Poochie - shadows were never the deal with SG and even with WP it was never stated as a benefit.

As has been repeated ad nauseam on these forums but the message never seems to sink in.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

You can't lose something you never had.

If AP feels they did 'have it', then it's as good as a stated benefit in their mind.
IMO shadow losses are a big deal. When the bronze nobody can get 2 shadows and a WP can't get a shadow there is a problem.

I've become excellent at getting shadows over the past year on airlines I hold zero status with.
The problem with shadows is that the folks running the loyalty programs are NOT frequent flyers. They are not paying for tickets and not living and breathing the program. Instead, they're all running around worried about interchange and the next partner they can flog some points off to. Members are the core product of every FFP and sometimes I feel like certain programs are more focused on screwing members than trying to bring new value and making the travel experience more enjoyable and rewarding.

 

[GoldCanyon340]

If AP feels they did 'have it', then it's as good as a stated benefit in their mind.

But describing a declining 'benefit' that wasn't there to begin with could result in a denigration of the frequent flyer program. If casual browsers of this forum read that a Gold frequent flyer is receiving less onboard service and/or recognition they may decide to put their cash into a competing program and airline.

 

[Pushka]

Unless something has happened in the last four weeks I'm still getting a shadow. But I never select the bulkhead.
Funniest thing I heard a few months ago was a couple who presumed they would always get a shadow between them so they picked aisle and window. They were in the row behind me - let's say row 9. Then another pax came to their row to claim their middle seat. The lady from the couple outrightly said - 'this is our seat - you can't sit here'. Which of course got her absolutely nowhere. I kept my shadow.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

But describing a declining 'benefit' that wasn't there to begin with could result in a denigration of the frequent flyer program. If casual browsers of this forum read that a Gold frequent flyer is receiving less onboard service and/or recognition they may decide to put their cash into a competing program and airline.

Correct. There are 10000s of casual browsers on this and other forums. This is why I believe QF and VA should be taking a proactive approach to how they use AFF. The social media team doesn't seem to have figured out how to extract the value of cluster coefficiency data to map member networks and cross reference with marketing.

Without going too technical, sites like AFF can map out a users influencial social network to understand why a particular member does or does interact with a campaign/promotion. https://www.traveldatadaily.com/cathay-pacific-marco-polo-loyalty/

 

[Pleb Status]

Booked a HKG-PER flight in J this afternoon.

QFF - 65000pts + HKD456 (on CX) and not a single J seat available a month or more either side of my preferred travel date.

KF - 32500pts (or 43875 VFF pts) + HKD471 (on SQ) and oodles of J seats available on every day on and around my preferred travel date.

I had no choice but to book using KF miles.

QFF has no value if I cannot redeem when I need to and is very expensive when seats are actually available.

 

[Isochronous]

The only good thing about QFF these days is EK Redemption. Otherwise there are better oneworld programmes out there.

 

[Deleted member]

At my age and stage, I am somewhat wedded to the QF program, my life time status as a Qantas Club member plus LTS is a pretty good fall back position. LTG doesn't hold too many extra benefits over that, and the way I am traveling, it's unlikely I would see LTG anytime soon. I have a good bank of points (for the moment) so it a matter of making hay while the sun shines. But I agree, partner redemptions are a much better deal.

 

[RichardMEL]

The grass is always greener it seems.

I personally feel everyone has different circumstances, needs, goals etc. One person's lack of availability is another's "I can always book what I want" deal (whatever it is). In reality though it's never black or white and everyone's experiences will be variable. Sometimes that undefinited benefit of a shadow may or may not appear. Sometimes upgrades may clear, or may not, or you may find F availability to LHR when you want it, or not.

I find blanket statements to be poor generalisations when it comes to this kind of thing.

As an example, I as a solo pax with interest in certain destinations will have, most likely, vastly different experiences to a "standard" family of 4 wanting to redeem points to go to the Gold Coast during school holidays. By the same token, if that same family can redeem seats on JQ they'd likely see value in the product, but if I can't find that F seat to DFW I really want.. then maybe I don't... or maybe that family can't get seats for the hols so have zero value(in their terms) but I can get EK to Paris when I want, and P1 upgrades me mostly when I want it... thus I see value.

this is hypothetical only mostly used to try and make my point.

Just remember, that EVERY loyalty scheme is changing, adapting, and invariably value is declining (see UA's recent revamp which destroys the few sweet spots that were left as from November). They're hardly alone here. VA will change in time, and QF will continue to change as they try to get more of our $$$ for less of their cost.. as all of them seek to do.

Like the Game of Thrones, we must play the Game of Points to extract what we can before the dragons or white(card) walkers finally get us in the end and we meet a grisly death in 28E on a jam packed 737 to PER

happy scheming.