Hey! I'm Wil and I'm 16

[CaviAck]

Now I'm afraid that this is where I really sound like the newbie I am, what other reasons are there that I would be taking flights besides that they are cheap? (And obviously for the love of flying)

Well because you need to end up in XYZ, however I'm now finding I'm doing all sorts of routing to do that just because I can for the same price or cheaper. Why do SYD-xDXB-CDG-xDXB-SYD when you can do SYD-DFW-JFK-HEL-GOT-CDG/ORY-GOT-LHR-LAX-MEL-SYD xD

 

[JessicaTam]

Now I'm afraid that this is where I really sound like the newbie I am, what other reasons are there that I would be taking flights besides that they are cheap? (And obviously for the love of flying)

Don't ask me. Any excuse is a good excuse.

Oh, and welcome!

 

[wil]

Well because you need to end up in XYZ, however I'm now finding I'm doing all sorts of routing to do that just because I can for the same price or cheaper. Why do SYD-xDXB-CDG-xDXB-SYD when you can do SYD-DFW-JFK-HEL-GOT-CDG/ORY-GOT-LHR-LAX-MEL-SYD xD

if you were to do that would be earning more points along the way as well?

 

[CaviAck]

if you were to do that would be earning more points along the way as well?

Roughly 10% more in numerical terms but vastly more in terms of redemption value by using different airlines and frequent flyer programs.

Edit: Scratch that, it's roughly 35% more in numerical value and substantially more in terms of redemption value, roughly twice the redemption value.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

I actually stumbled across this hobby because of a brilliant article in this months edition of The Rolling Stones Magazine, after finishing it I was excited beyond all. It's a great article and you can check it out here

Firstly welcome to both the Forum, and to "The Hobby" as the article calls it.

Secondly thank you for posting such an excellent artticle. Such articles are rare.

It reminds me of my first inspiration to make the acquiring of points both a science and and art rather than just "earning" them as I went along. It was when I read about The Pudding Guy. The light bulb went on and I have not looked back since.


However one myth is that you fly for free. Normally always there is some cost in money and/or in your time to acquire points, and then also in maximising the use of them. The cost of "earn" to "burn" can vary enormously.

Of course some people still chase "unecomical" points just for the fun of it. But personally, I in the main only chase points when the equation in time and money to do so stacks up. Whats stacks up though is different for each of us and how one intends to use the points.

TIP: Opportunties come and go. The main thing is be alert to them and then to act without hesitation (but not without consideration, as sometimes too much greed can cause one to become unstuck).

Doing you research as you are now doing will over time present you with many opportunities. I will not wish you good luck, as luck has little to do with it!!!

 

[esseeeayeenn]

if you were to do that would be earning more points along the way as well?

The points are based on miles flown so that depends on how far out of your way the routing takes you.
However you can often earn more status credits simply by flying more sectors, even if the total miles flown are the same.
For example for a Bronze QFF PER-SYD earns 1450 points and 20 SCs in discount economy, but if you fly PER-ADL-SYD it earns 1600 points and 25 SCs.
If you fly PER-ADL-MEL-SYD it earns 2400 points and 35 SCs. The points earned would be different if you had a higher status.
Often some of these complex routings are offered for the same or a similar fare as a direct route., though of course they take more time.
Some people value points more, others prefer status credits. You need to decide what your objectives are.
Then you can work out how best to achieve them.

 

[wil]

The points are based on miles flown so that depends on how far out of your way the routing takes you.
However you can often earn more status credits simply by flying more sectors, even if the total miles flown are the same.
For example for a Bronze QFF PER-SYD earns 1450 points and 20 SCs in discount economy, but if you fly PER-ADL-SYD it earns 1600 points and 25 SCs.
If you fly PER-ADL-MEL-SYD it earns 2400 points and 35 SCs. The points earned would be different if you had a higher status.
Often some of these complex routings are offered for the same or a similar fare as a direct route., though of course they take more time.
Some people value points more, others prefer status credits. You need to decide what your objectives are.
Then you can work out how best to achieve them.

Wow that certainly is a lot to think about. I have a few questions that I'd be extremely grateful if anybody could answer:
1. Would it be smarter to chase SCs first to earn more points faster?
2. Is there an easy way to find these indirect but similarly priced routings? Or is truly just intense searching?
3. How on earth can I present this investment to my parents so that they wil allow me to fly here and there to earn more points?

 

[Deleted member]

I suppose the best part is unlike some of the really ancient ones ( like me) you don't have to rush it all. Having a 30+ years head start will mean a lot one day.

 

[trixydoza]

Wow that certainly is a lot to think about. I have a few questions that I'd be extremely grateful if anybody could answer:
1. Would it be smarter to chase SCs first to earn more points faster?

Smartest thing would be to learn to crunch the numbers as quickly as possible for yourself. I don't mean that harshly... it's just not that hard, and a lot of people here still can't do it.

 

[esseeeayeenn]

Wow that certainly is a lot to think about. I have a few questions that I'd be extremely grateful if anybody could answer:
1. Would it be smarter to chase SCs first to earn more points faster?

• In my view, yes, but only if you have a realistic chance of doing enough flying to gain status. Others may disagree.

2. Is there an easy way to find these indirect but similarly priced routings? Or is truly just intense searching?

• Often indirect routes will be shown below direct routes when you search for flights. Otherwise you can use the muti city booking page and experiment.
• I gather there may be sites which assist with this - others may know more.

3. How on earth can I present this investment to my parents so that they wil allow me to fly here and there to earn more points?

• I'd refer to the example in the article you posted - give them something they will appreciate - then they'll be hooked as well.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

1. Would it be smarter to chase SCs first to earn more points faster?

• In my view, yes, but only if you have a realistic chance of doing enough flying to gain status. Others may disagree.

Well that would actually mean paying for flights :shock: Something I try and avoid except for taxes and charges.


As in most FF things there is not one approach for all.

You need to develop a strategy that works best for you. And given that you are 16 at present that will change over time as your circumstances and opportunities change.

You need to crunch YOUR numbers trixydoza has wisely advised as what is best for you will not be what is best for another, and what is best for you at 16 will be different at 18 and 21! It will also vary for not just what you can earn, but how you want to burn.

For some who have a lot of paid flights, or say paid RTW that you can ramp up in the sectors in to boost staus quickly, that strategy can be great to multiply points earnt bt flying, and through staus to gain benefits that can improve your Y experience such as lounge access.

Personally I do not buy long-haul international flights. I only redeem them, and the last one I paid for was back in 2009. I gain my status by only flying in J or F. Though some CC can also provide some lounge access. Points earnt by flying is tiny for me.

I don't have large business spend to manufacture points, and so I need to be alert for oppourtunities to earn points in many varied ways. Churning CC. Gaining extra points on CC promos (unfortunately a lot less lucrative than it used to be), Everyday Rewards including promos, stacking points where possible, joining bonii for airlins and all sorts of things like online shopping promos. But it needs to be worth my time. ie I will not fill outa 20 minute survey for 100points!

Being in multliple FF programs allows me to gain award points to secure the best rate for a particular earn (ie SQ online shopping mall may have double points as a special for Ebay purchases when say Velocity or QFF do not), and to redeem on the program that is best for that flight (best is not just less cost, but what is most convenient for me).

Many FF programs have specials on redemptions, or on transferring points. So that can mean cheaper redemptions and allow more effective earn by gaining an extra 10-30% on your points. Ideally both!!

 

[Sprucegoose]

Welcome. It's all about status. Chase status as hard as you can and then when you get to LTG (which hopefully for you will be LTWP) you can take a breather.

 

[CaviAck]

Wow that certainly is a lot to think about. I have a few questions that I'd be extremely grateful if anybody could answer:
1. Would it be smarter to chase SCs first to earn more points faster?
2. Is there an easy way to find these indirect but similarly priced routings? Or is truly just intense searching?
3. How on earth can I present this investment to my parents so that they wil allow me to fly here and there to earn more points?

I'm only 5-ish years older than you and still travelling largely under my parent's dollar and have been doing so for the last 3 years, so hopefully I can give you a few tips that might be relevant.

1. No. Unless you're already doing or can see in the very near future that you will be doing a lot of spending it's usually never a good thing to chase SCs and status to earn points faster. I don't do that much flying (well normally I do enough to maintain SG) so the benefit of the status bonus (more so now that the bonus is based off discount economy earn with QF) isn't that great. If you small amounts of flying or enough to say qualify for PS or there abouts then the chase for status isn't about earning more points it's about the benefits that you get with it. So lounge access and what not, and with that being said it's probably now not a good idea to chase WP unless you do a lot of intl flying as domestically the value of WP has been devalued so much it's not funny (well more like the value of SG has been upgraded to make WP comparatively devalued). I'll add the point that the only reason I went on a status run for WP was because the idea popped into my head when it was still worth it and took the plunge and planned it all before the comparative value decreased, if I was to re-evaluate it now I wouldn't go on the run.

2. Two websites pop to mind. First https://matrix.itasoftware.com/ it'll give you all sorts of routings when you plug in the city pairs and if you learn how to use it, it becomes a very powerful tool for finding fares. The second website is flights.google.com, it's essentially the same engine as the first website but puts it into a nice easy to use interface with menus and buttons instead of having to use code to narrow your parameters. You will be trading searching power for the nice interface though as matrix is very flexible and powerful if you learn how to manipulate it.

3. There is no one presentation that you can make to convince your parents about this "investment" in one go. You're gonna have to lure and sucker them into the perks. My parents still don't fully understand that you can get value from FF points. It was about showing first and then getting them to do it. At first they didn't really like the idea of paying more to fly with QF but after showing them the benefits they warmed to the idea. Show them that you earn points and points can be used for flights and upgrades. Show them that with status you'll get more points and then crunch the numbers with them of how much value you can get back with the status bonuses. Might be a bit hard if you're not SG yet but show them what it's like in the lounge, try and fly on the same day as someone else who can guest you into the lounge or even just turn up to the airport for that one day and show them what lounge access gets you, accept that it's luxury and that you are essentially paying for something not necessary but at the same time show them that you enjoy this that flying is a passion/hobby and that lounge access and all that is something that brings joy to you (helps if flying is one of few hobbies or is one of few expensive hobbies). After showing my parents (dad was easy to convince he was easy going with the idea and encouraged my love of flying, it's my mother who was tighter on money and thinks I'm crazy for flying so much) the intl J lounge they understood why, heck my mum started to get hooked as well. So now they're asking, oh do you get lounge access and all that, do I get to go in as well when I drop you off at the gate, etc etc. It takes time but it's possible, it also takes some bargain and trade offs at first as well, my parents took me more seriously when I was offering to give up something or do something I didn't really want to to get what I wanted in return, it showed them that I was serious about what I was chasing.

 

[Deleted member]

Wow that certainly is a lot to think about. I have a few questions that I'd be extremely grateful if anybody could answer:
1. Would it be smarter to chase SCs first to earn more points faster?

Status is only going to have immediate effect if you are traveling (really) frequently . However the long term benefits may accrue if you fly the minimum prescribed and get to do a few ( regular) trips long haul


2. Is there an easy way to find these indirect but similarly priced routings? Or is truly just intense searching?

There are threads about status runs and conversations on how to maximize routing for reward.


3. How on earth can I present this investment to my parents so that they wil allow me to fly here and there to earn more points?

That probably depends upon your parents.

 

[wil]

1. Would it be smarter to chase SCs first to earn more points faster?



Well that would actually mean paying for flights :shock: Something I try and avoid except for taxes and charges.


As in most FF things there is not one approach for all.

You need to develop a strategy that works best for you. And given that you are 16 at present that will change over time as your circumstances and opportunities change.

You need to crunch YOUR numbers trixydoza has wisely advised as what is best for you will not be what is best for another, and what is best for you at 16 will be different at 18 and 21! It will also vary for not just what you can earn, but how you want to burn.

For some who have a lot of paid flights, or say paid RTW that you can ramp up in the sectors in to boost staus quickly, that strategy can be great to multiply points earnt bt flying, and through staus to gain benefits that can improve your Y experience such as lounge access.

Personally I do not buy long-haul international flights. I only redeem them, and the last one I paid for was back in 2009. I gain my status by only flying in J or F. Though some CC can also provide some lounge access. Points earnt by flying is tiny for me.

I don't have large business spend to manufacture points, and so I need to be alert for oppourtunities to earn points in many varied ways. Churning CC. Gaining extra points on CC promos (unfortunately a lot less lucrative than it used to be), Everyday Rewards including promos, stacking points where possible, joining bonii for airlins and all sorts of things like online shopping promos. But it needs to be worth my time. ie I will not fill outa 20 minute survey for 100points!

Being in multliple FF programs allows me to gain award points to secure the best rate for a particular earn (ie SQ online shopping mall may have double points as a special for Ebay purchases when say Velocity or QFF do not), and to redeem on the program that is best for that flight (best is not just less cost, but what is most convenient for me).

Many FF programs have specials on redemptions, or on transferring points. So that can mean cheaper redemptions and allow more effective earn by gaining an extra 10-30% on your points. Ideally both!!

G'day

Thank you for all your advice, I am incredibly appreciative however there are a couple things I would like to clarify as with my limited knowledge I didn't understand too well. Firstly, I have the mathematical ability to crunch numbers but (and this is where I sound daft) I don't know what numbers to crunch haha. Secondly, what is the strategy of stacking points? Otherwise everything was really well written and, once again, I am really appreciative.

cheers,
wil

 

[lovetravellingoz]

G'day

Thank you for all your advice, I am incredibly appreciative however there are a couple things I would like to clarify as with my limited knowledge I didn't understand too well. Firstly, I have the mathematical ability to crunch numbers but (and this is where I sound daft) I don't know what numbers to crunch haha.

.


What number to crunch? As circumstances and opportunities vary this is no one answer to this. But it comes from fully understaning what the cost of acquistion of particular points are, and the full cost of any redemption. so it will come as you research.

ie Credit Card Points
* Is there a yearly fee? If so this must bededucted from the value gained. However other benefits such as free flught might offset or even outweigh the cost of the card
* Are there any credit card surcharges? ie 3% to use Amex, but VISA/MC may be lower or even no surcharge (So some bills I pay by VISA even though the FF point earn is less
*How many points per $ are earnt, and does this vary by type of spend (ie petrol, restaurants, supermarkets = you spend profile will be better on some cards ). I havea number of CCs and use different ones to pay for different things to maximise my earn
* What points actually end up transferred to various FF program. some bank awards earn more points, but when transfrred earn less effective points than another card

Where you want to fly can affect things as not all award programs are the same. This means that various routes are cheaper in some FF programs than in others. also the fees charged by airlines can vary hugely. ie to Africa in J on Etihad it was $57 and flying back with QF it was $400.


All programs are different and so what is best per FF program as well.

Number crunching should make allowance for your time too.
* For example there may be a survey that awrds 100 points, but takes 20 minutes. For me this is not worth my time (as in $$$$ my work would earn me a lot more value if I dedicated the same time to it instead), but at 16 with ample free time it may be yours. However if you enjoy it as a "hobby" you may discount your time due to the enjoyment.


If you go for Manfactured Spend. You need to work out the cost per point. ie See the ATO thread where people pay their Tax Bills by Credit Card, but the ATO charges a fee. Therefore one is effectively buying points. This used to be a bargain, but is no longer so.

etc etc


So flying for free is largely a myth. I prefer to think of it as flying cheaply...or flying in a lot more comfort.

Secondly, what is the strategy of stacking points? Otherwise everything was really well written and, once again, I am really appreciative.

cheers,
wil

Stacking is earning multiple points at once...and not necessarily in the same FF prorgra, ie you might earn two sets of QFF points, or you might earn say QFF or Krisflyer points whilst also earning Amex Reward points with an Amex (Or Citibank points with a Citibank card etc).

I you can shop at The Iconic this week online and just gain the points earnt by Credit Card spent. Say 1.5 amex Mileage Reward Points. Or you can stack it by shopping through he Qantas Portal and also earn 12 QFF per $ as well (is notmallya third of that.

At Woolworths you can earn 1 QFF point per $ above $30 spend by joing Everyday Rewards.
If I shop with my Amex Edge I also earn 3 points per $ on that (which I use on SQ as it goes at 1;1 and to me SQ is much better value than QFF and much easier to get J?F seats on.). Other people prefer to save 5% by buying a gift card from say RACV first, but earning less points per $.
I stacj my points further at WOW as I take advantage of bonus offers that suit me. So rather than average $1 point per $ at WOW on QFF I have averaged about 4 QFF points per 4 since inception.

If I buy a movie ticket, or shop at Myers etc, I may do so using a WOW/Coles Gift card thus earning a QF Point and an Amex point.


etc

 

[Mr_Fitz]

Hi Wil,

Welcome

Nice to meet you, I'm new too