Here's Why Airlines DON'T Care About Customer Service

[MEL_Traveller]

Just read a few of JohnK's posts.There is one consumer who very definitely is pushing for lower prices and there are very more of his type when you get away from the typical AFF flyer.Several in my family who would do exactly the same as JohnK.

Not sure if I understand you correctly on this.

JohnK flies EK or QF, using F class lounges and other benefits. Price is not necessarily his #1 issue. How is this driving down prices?

Anyone taking unnecessary trips - wether for work, leisure, holidays, going to see the footy team play in the finals... is not pushing prices down. They are taking advantage of low prices. If they thought it was too expensive, they wouldn't take the trip.

 

[Forg]

People who choose their flight with their primary criterion being price are "voting with their feet". They are choosing the lower fares, the airlines are seeing lower fares selling seats.

And I believe that's most flyers.

 

[esseeeayeenn]

This article is so typically American.
It pretends to be writing about the whole world but is in fact blind to its own parochialism.
I can assure you that flight attendants in Australia are paid during pre-flight briefings, boarding, taxi and disembarkation and they certainly are paid and compensated if flights are delayed.
The main reason airlines can ignore customers is that there are too many of them, and the overwhelming majority of them are infrequent flyers.
That's why Qantas issues their CSMs and CSSs with ipads which download the manifest so they can focus on PAX who are identified as important.

 

[albatross710]

The consumer demand is for lower prices, if it wasn't then consumers wouldn't choose lower prices over greater service.

Actually...I usually dont take the lowest cost flight. I need to factor in

Time of day
Overall duration of journey
Carrier reputation and FF benefits
Stopover/layover option
Change fee

It's not only price, it's a mixture. A more convenient flight on a quick transit on a carrier I prefer through somewhere interesting is going to cost me 30% more

 

[esseeeayeenn]

Actually...I usually dont take the lowest cost flight. I need to factor in

Time of day
Overall duration of journey
Carrier reputation and FF benefits
Stopover/layover option
Change fee

It's not only price, it's a mixture. A more convenient flight on a quick transit on a carrier I prefer through somewhere interesting is going to cost me 30% more

No one is saying you (or any other individual) is only motivated by cost.
They are saying the overall market sector of economy class air travel is motivated primarily by cost.

 

[albatross710]

They are saying the overall market sector of economy class air travel is motivated primarily by cost.

And I'm saying the exact opposite.

A consumer (economy, LCC or otherwise) makes a decision on many facets, of which dollar price is just one factor. A plane trip is certainly not an undifferentiated product as a economist might describe

 

[Forg]

You don’t encounter bad service until something goes wrong with your reservation (rare) or you’re in the air.

The majority of travellers travel infrequently enough to never have a problem that requires contacting customer service (eg. me) and also won’t remember whether their G&T took 15 minutes to arrive last they flew. For example, me, I only fly maybe twice per year & haven’t ever experienced ‘bad service’ in the air or on the ground.

However, they (we) CAN differentiate based on price, and admittedly a few other things such as flight length. Now as a member of this forum I can do a bit of research into ‘customer service’, but what others have said about bad service (given I’ve never experienced it) are way way down the list compared to seat dimensions & trip length & price & lounge access rules & the chance of being delayed due to cancellations or lateness (*waves to Jetstar*).

 

[juddles]

And I'm saying the exact opposite.

A consumer (economy, LCC or otherwise) makes a decision on many facets, of which dollar price is just one factor. A plane trip is certainly not an undifferentiated product as a economist might describe

albatross, I hear your viewpoints, both personal experiences/characteristics, and your thoughts in general, but when specifically examining the economy market in flight travel, I think that it is a fairly justifiable position to hold that price is absolutely the number 1 factor in flight selection. My belief of this can, in my view, be supported by the essentially universal trait of online booking systems to list flights by price.

Take a stroll past your local Flight Centre office - their big billboards show things on minimum price. Not by service levels, or seat pitch, etc etc. Why do they do this? And the online booking agents, airlines, etc. Because they all know that price is the way to get someone thru the door.....

 

[MEL_Traveller]

... is absolutely the number 1 factor in flight selection.

I agree It might be the number one advertised feature. But that doesn't indicate sales. People won't fly Garuda simply because of an accident 10 years ago. They won't fly China Airlines because of its reputation. They won't fly the Chinese carriers because of reports about service, or unknown safety fears (that are unfounded, but nonetheless figure highly).

Price is important, but there are many Aussie who feel the price is 'too low' when it comes to certain carriers. About as 'adventurous' as Aussies get is flying Etihad (pushing the boundary just that little bit further than Emirates).

Most product advertisements... cars, air conditioners, you name it... they almost always advertise the lowest price. Yet we don't all drive the same entry-level car.

 

[juddles]

.......

Price is important, but there are many Aussie who feel the price is 'too low' when it comes to certain carriers. About as 'adventurous' as Aussies get is flying Etihad (pushing the boundary just that little bit further than Emirates).
....

MEL, not disagreeing, but on what factual basis do you claim this?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

MEL, not disagreeing, but on what factual basis do you claim this?

Those concerns are the number one issue when discussing cheap fares, holidays or travel arrangements.

Only anecdotal. But pretty much the first question that comes up whenever these cheap fares come out are 'are they safe?' or 'do they speak English?' or 'is the service any good?'. The question is rarely genuine, more rhetorical.

No doubt the passenger loads will tell a different story, but they might not show passenger demographics. I think most Aussies feel Etihad is pushing the boat out. They're happy with Singapore, Qatar, Emirates, Qantas, Jetstar. Anything else is a hard sell. (Strangely you never hear anyone saying they fly Thai, but the planes are chockers.)

 

[dajop]

No doubt the passenger loads will tell a different story, but they might not show passenger demographics. I think most Aussies feel Etihad is pushing the boat out. They're happy with Singapore, Qatar, Emirates, Qantas, Jetstar. Anything else is a hard sell.

Air NZ, Cathay, Air Canada, Fiji Airways, Thai, United, Qatar, BA, Japanese carriers, Scoot? I think the list is much broader (in terms of what people will accept, although maybe not immediately come to mind). Even MH, despite being on many no fly lists, continues to attract significant numbers of Australian passengers (using Caucasians as a proxy, but also judging by the colour of the passports I observed on my most recent trip around 12 months ago).

There is only one carrier I’ve flown from Australia internationally where I’ve been the only Caucasian in the whole of economy - Air China, SYD-CTU. I did notice a number of Aussie passports though, held by people of Chinese ancestry.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Air NZ, Cathay, Air Canada, Fiji Airways, Thai, United, Qatar, BA, Japanese carriers, Scoot?

That's probably a reasonable summary. Never heard of anyone taking FJ beyond Fiji, and Scoot never gets a mention. Qatar was already on my list. There's quite a good following for them at the office - mainly because people can get to the airport early and snag exit rows. The Japanese carriers rarely get mentioned. NH because they don't fly to MEL, but otherwise because people look to JQ with their 'deals'.

 

[esseeeayeenn]

They're happy with Singapore, Qatar, Emirates, Qantas, Jetstar.

*Margaret Thatcher voice*
"Who are these people who are happy with jetstar? Give me their names and addresses!"

 

[Pleb Status]

*Margaret Thatcher voice*
"Who are these people who are happy with jetstar? Give me their names and addresses!"

I actually miss flying on 3K since they were taken off PER-SIN v.v. direct.

As cost is the most important metric (with a 75%-100% decision weighting), using the PBG off TR, you could fly 3K PER-SIN-PER for less than AUD200 return (all costs included). With additional exit row seats, I would pay less than AUD260 return with extra legroom. SQ/QF were normally more than double (or even triple) the price.

Playing with JQ/3K is like playing with a hand genade however. It can be 'fun' most of the time but can take an arm off at any time without warning....

 

[wandering_fred]

Still, the last JQ flight DPS-PER Max fare was 50SC for AU$274 (Feb 2019). Rather better than QF domestic or PER-SIN.....
My inclination is more scheduled arrival time than the on board entitlements. The cheaper cost is just a plus.
Pity about SIN departure times to Australia though. (SIN-DPS-PER // SIN-DRW)

Just wandering
Fred

 

[MEL_Traveller]

MEL, not disagreeing, but on what factual basis do you claim this?

Talk about timing... from another thread here on AFF where the OP asked about business class to Europe in 2020...

Really appreciate the comments. We don’t fly a lot, mainly to USA over the past few years and have been fortunate enough to have the points to fly business with Qantas.
To be honest, we are not game enough to use anything but a ‘better end’ airline, which may mean a few more to you than we think.
Emerites, Qatar,Singapore, Qantas, Etihad, are what we are thinking of. If we have to pay for them, so be it.
My initial query was perhaps obscure as fare as airlines were concerned but wondered if there is a time period that perhaps these companies released sale priced seats.
Hope that doesn’t sound snobby but....
Cheers

 

[esseeeayeenn]

Talk about timing... from another thread here on AFF where the OP asked about business class to Europe in 2020...

But that's about business class, a completely different market sector.
And it's defined by the very fact that price is not their primary criteria!

 

[MEL_Traveller]

But that's about business class, a completely different market sector.
And it's defined by the very fact that price is not their primary criteria!

Yes, it is business class, but demonstrates the same underlying thought processes. The alternative could be a better airline. Better product. Cheaper price. But some won't even *listen* to the name of another airline put forward. This is the same no matter which class.

now there's nothing wrong with that, i was just using it as an example in response to juddles' post.

 

[drron]

In my job I talk to a lot of ordinary people.Many times talk will gravitate to travel.Believe me those that don't work in offices in Sydney or Melbourne and have never heard of AFF or believe Flight Centre is a great TA think price is very important in their choice of airline.And these people make up a lot of the economy cabin.