Empty seats in Business Class and Upgrade declined

[pyffii]

Mrs Pyffii and I ( both WP's )flew from OOL to SYD today in row 4...middle seat empty and a delightful flight BUT I had requested some time ago for an upgrade for both of us to business class...At T-6 we were officially declined an upgrade...no worries says I...Then boarded the flight to discover, on take off, 2 empty seats in business class and a load factor in Y of 60%...Which poses the question of why our upgrade was not cleared ??...Anyone have an clues as to why ??

 

[Shelf]

No Shows in J ?

 

[Alanslegal]

These upgrade questions/comments come up from time to time and there's a whole range of possible factors. Factors ranging from last minute no shows, through to keeping premium cabins "premium" by limiting the amount of upgrades. With the latter, if upgrades were automatic just because a seat was vacant, then some flyers might take a punt and book Y cabins knowing that this airline always upgraded just because there was a spare premium seat. Keeping it "hard enough" to upgrade then it might make some people just want to book premium cabins because it wasn't guaranteed. A lot of folks here always say "if you want a seat, then book it" and don't rely on that upgrade - I guess airlines make it "hard" so that people do book premium seats.

 

[pyffii]

Maybe but with the very light load don't really think that was the case

 

[pyffii]

Agreed Alanslegal

 

[straitman]

There is no incentive to clear the upgrades if Y loads are low.

Yield management principles say that a J seat will be left for the last minute customer that wants to front up and pay whatever. It happens often enough to then fly with empty J seats on the other occasions.

Do you really think they would not accept the upgrades IF there was a dollar of revenue being missed?

 

[pyffii]

Just thought that yield management might be happy for customers to chew up a few points but as its a business decision quite understand that the powers to be will only release when it's suits Qantas...but as I said previously that as we were able to select row 4 and had a spare seat between us the flight was in fact great so really didn't miss the upgrade...having said that I agree that just because there are empty seats in J doesn't mean they have to be filled by upgrades...I now await our upgrade request to First on QF 93 in July to be granted

 

[Standby]

The problem is you don't know what you don't know behind the scenes. I believe that as a business you always look to make the most money balanced with keeping customers happy and coming back, every 1 wins. Agree with the others commentss. May have been a simple case of a nosho or a late cancel within the declined period . Its disappointing to miss out. As a WP you will get the upgrade ahead of lower tiers but there are no guarantees. I have to do a fair bit of forecasting in a manufacturing role and one thing I know is forecasts tend to be slightly wrong most of the time. I'm sure that's the case when planning to protect space in a cabin of 12 seats on a flight as well. Glad to hear you got the spare seat and row 4 as a WP you'd hope for and better luck next time. I'd be less forgiving though if on a longhaul flight walking thru the J cabin after getting a decline to see a row of empty seats.

 

[danny09]

I have had an upgarde knocked back from PHE-PER, put in for it a few days before the flight, come to the day of departure upgrade declined, jump onboard & all 12 business seats were free. I put it down to the catering, as there was no-one in J, so why process the upgrade & have to do a meal service for J. I was most upset about that as I generally upgrade on the night flights for the meal service. Has only happened once to me.

 

[equus]

This is a domestic flight - so very different upgrade process.

If you requested some time ago, then the domestic upgrade is waiting on U class availability - and will clear when (2 in your case) U fare buckets are released. If the load factors are even reasonable in J, then the U seats (allowing anyone to book with points) are unlikely to be released.

The declined at T-6 would appear to be the final clean up because no U seats are being released.

If you had then requested an on-departure upgrade in the lounge, then things might have been very different. These get processed after close of checkin, and may fill those remaining seats (probably with catering not assured).

This is very different to the (farily new) International upgrade process, which works right up to departure on the original request (but AFAIK does not rely on or look at all at the U bucket released).

All this assumes that you did not request upgrades (again) in the lounge after check in.

 

[Deleted member]

This is a domestic flight - so very different upgrade process.

If you requested some time ago, then the domestic upgrade is waiting on U class availability - and will clear when (2 in your case) U fare buckets are released. If the load factors are even reasonable in J, then the U seats (allowing anyone to book with points) are unlikely to be released.

The declined at T-6 would appear to be the final clean up because no U seats are being released.

If you had then requested an on-departure upgrade in the lounge, then things might have been very different. These get processed after close of checkin, and may fill those remaining seats (probably with catering not assured).

This is very different to the (farily new) International upgrade process, which works right up to departure on the original request (but AFAIK does not rely on or look at all at the U bucket released).

All this assumes that you did not request upgrades (again) in the lounge after check in.

I have done ( or tried to do) an on departure upgrade BNE-SYD. got a knock back
J was half full ?

 

[pyffii]

to be honest with a misconnect out of Sydney due to the fog fdelays and trying to rebook I completely forgot about on departure upgrade although I did mention that we were declined an upgrade to Sydney, in passing, to the lovely lounge angel in OOL...next time I might remember

 

[Limewood]

Was on flights BNE/AKL/SYD recently had spare seat in J next to me on the little 737/800 rest of Y looked totally full to me, so no upgrades given out. SYD to CNS had elderly gent next to me in J (said his son was a Qantas pilot) he was upped.

 

[Anna]

As someone who occasionally pays for J out of my own pocket, I hate the idea that the J cabin would always be full because if there were any unsold seats they would always be given to people using points to upgrade.

But yes, OTH it is disappointing to request an upgrade and not get it.

 

[markis10]

I would not have been surprised if ops issued a stasis command on all cabins yesterday while they sorted passengers who were not going on their original flights, its much easier to move people if the situation is stable, its also possible that the seats unfilled belonged to passengers connecting who were caught in the fog.

 

[opusman]

My understanding was ODUs on domestic flights were not dependant on U availability, but were simply space available (with the possibility of "catering not assured"). I may be wrong though!

 

[ajw373]

Factors ranging from last minute no shows, through to keeping premium cabins "premium" by limiting the amount of upgrades. With the latter, if upgrades were automatic just because a seat was vacant, then some flyers might take a punt and book Y cabins knowing that this airline always upgraded

That what happens in the US, United in particular. Business always full due to upgrades and if you look when you board (or even online before hand) they show who the upgrades are too.

 

[RooFlyer]

I've pondered the upgrade policy of QF vs the North American carriers, Air Canada being my main one.

Because AC will upgrade Y pax till the J cabin is full (or nearly always), FF pax will book Y (albeit a relatively expensive Y bucket) to play 'aerolotto' using electronic 'eUpgrade' certificates; that is, to be upgraded at any time from 7 days out (top tiers) till at the gate. Even for TPAC type flights.

Many will boast they get upgraded say 90% or more of the time (mainly their top tier flyers). This must be a huge drain on revenue; pax who would book and pay for J if they had to, instead pay for Y and take their chances, knowing its a good bet; the higher staus FF, the better the odds. I've been at the gate and heard 5 people being called up to get their upgrades for a E90 J cabin of 9 people!

I know Nth American airlines have a more aggressive over-sell policy, so the upgrades aren't necessarily altruistic, but it must cannibalise J fares to a significant degree.

On the other hand - figure this out. Flying United SFO-YYC a couple of weeks ago, myself and a colleague in Y. E90 cabin, only 2 pax in the J section (capacity 6 in this case I think). Just before the doors closed, we were invited up to the J cabin; we hadn't applied for any upgrades. I have top status in AC's scheme, colleague only middling. I think this is the only opup I have ever received - QF and all!

 

[EmilyHoward]

I have had an upgarde knocked back from PHE-PER, put in for it a few days before the flight, come to the day of departure upgrade declined, jump onboard & all 12 business seats were free. I put it down to the catering, as there was no-one in J, so why process the upgrade & have to do a meal service for J. I was most upset about that as I generally upgrade on the night flights for the meal service. Has only happened once to me.

I'm up and down to PHE a bit and as I don't pay I'm usually in Row 4. Often times I have seen only 1 person in Business, though the rest of the plane is packed. I never put in for an upgrade though as it is such a short flight.

EH

 

[roncritch]

Been knocked beck on requested upgrades PER-DRW but still 7 seats available. Not a problem at QC, upgrade processed straight away...still 6 seats free on the flight. Can't figure out why original request was not granted but that's life.
Don't forget ff points are not free and Qantas makes most profit from the ff program, so I am paying for business class fare when I use them.