CAAC pushing China's big three to buy C919s

[NM]

From ATW Daily News:

CAAC is lobbying China's big three airlines to order the C919 and said it has formed a "pioneer customer group" for the aircraft comprising Air China, China Southern Airlines and China Eastern Airlines.

Why is my mind jumping to memories of the former USSR and airlines operating Illusion and Antanov aircraft? Aviation in China is a huge growth market, so there is likely room for Boeing and Airbus to play along side COMAC rather than the market being exclusive to one manufacturer.

 

[samh004]

I realise China wants to make their own plane and compete with the big boys, but the design is so similar, that they’ll surely be keeping Boeing and Airbus afloat in all the patent royalties they need to pay.

I would have thought they’d go with a completely new radical design, after all they are pretty much starting from scratch?

 

[NYCguy]

I realise China wants to make their own plane and compete with the big boys, but the design is so similar, that they’ll surely be keeping Boeing and Airbus afloat in all the patent royalties they need to pay.

I would have thought they’d go with a completely new radical design, after all they are pretty much starting from scratch?

I imagine that it's considerably cheaper to pay a whole bundle of licensing fees than to develop their own materials and unique manufacturing infrastructure from scratch.

 

[samh004]

I imagine that it's considerably cheaper to pay a whole bundle of licensing fees than to develop their own materials and unique manufacturing infrastructure from scratch.

Yeah I guess that’s true, I just thought they might come up with something radical and new to put them on the map, sort of thing.

 

[NYCguy]

Yeah I guess that’s true, I just thought they might come up with something radical and new to put them on the map, sort of thing.

Eh, I don't really consider the Chinese to be particularly innovative, though they are great reverse-engineers.

 

[NM]

I realise China wants to make their own plane and compete with the big boys, but the design is so similar, that they’ll surely be keeping Boeing and Airbus afloat in all the patent royalties they need to pay.

Do you believe Boeing and Airbus would be able to enforce such patent ownership again a Chinese company based in China? In which jurisdiction would they undertake legal action that is likely to result in actually receiving payments?

Do you think Vickers ever received any patent royalties from Illusion for the IL62 (VC-10ski) or BAe for the IL76 (BAe146ski - ok maybe a bit of a long-shot) or Boeing for the IL86 (B707ski) or the TU54 (B727ski) or Airbus for the TU204 (A300ski) or Aérospatiale for the TU144 (Concordeski)?

 

[v8Statesman]

Do you believe Boeing and Airbus would be able to enforce such patent ownership again a Chinese company based in China? In which jurisdiction would they undertake legal action that is likely to result in actually receiving payments?

They may not be able to apply pressure directly, but indirectly. The C919 may never get European air worthiness for example. So fly your stolen technology all you like over your own sovereign soil, but never use it internationally.

 

[samh004]

Do you believe Boeing and Airbus would be able to enforce such patent ownership again a Chinese company based in China? In which jurisdiction would they undertake legal action that is likely to result in actually receiving payments?

They may not be able to apply pressure directly, but indirectly. The C919 may never get European air worthiness for example. So fly your stolen technology all you like over your own sovereign soil, but never use it internationally.

That’s exactly what I was thinking. If China wants to sell or fly their planes anywhere other than China, they might want to think about who controls the airspace. And it’s not like China could then do the same to them, as that’d stop anyone from entering or leaving China, they’d be cutoff, which would be a bit useless.

 

[ejb]

That’s exactly what I was thinking. If China wants to sell or fly their planes anywhere other than China, they might want to think about who controls the airspace. And it’s not like China could then do the same to them, as that’d stop anyone from entering or leaving China, they’d be cutoff, which would be a bit useless.

However the fact that China owns most of the wests debt currently, what country would apply pressure?

The US would roll over to keep the peace and the EU is in no position to upset anyone of their funding sources.

ejb

 

[ejb]

Do you believe Boeing and Airbus would be able to enforce such patent ownership again a Chinese company based in China? In which jurisdiction would they undertake legal action that is likely to result in actually receiving payments?

Do you think Vickers ever received any patent royalties from Illusion for the IL62 (VC-10ski) or BAe for the IL76 (BAe146ski - ok maybe a bit of a long-shot) or Boeing for the IL86 (B707ski) or the TU54 (B727ski) or Airbus for the TU204 (A300ski) or Aérospatiale for the TU144 (Concordeski)?

Add to this list the dozens of cars they have copied from Toyota Yaris through to Rolls Royce Phantom.

No one can do anything about it so most companies, like Toyota, are now helping the local companies to get some revenue at least.

ejb

 

[v8Statesman]

Add to this list the dozens of cars they have copied from Toyota Yaris through to Rolls Royce Phantom.

No one can do anything about it so most companies, like Toyota, are now helping the local companies to get some revenue at least.

ejb

AFAIK, all used domestically only. So a little different.

 

[samh004]

I guess this could be argued till the cows come home, but if they’re stealing, and have bought the US’s debt, then they should cancel each other out, and work from a clean slate.

Eventually it’ll have to swing the other way, eg. the copy cats become the innovators and the innovators become copy cats, and I can’t imagine they’d be particularly happy with that scenario eventually

 

[v8Statesman]

I guess this could be argued till the cows come home, but if they’re stealing, and have bought the US’s debt, then they should cancel each other out, and work from a clean slate.

If they start to own to much debt, what would stop all of Europe and the US saying to China all at once. "What debt??" If only 1 or 2 countries did it. Well China would/could use mite "Mafia" style to make sure they got paid. If it was all of them at once. Well who do they fight?

 

[NYCguy]

Do you believe Boeing and Airbus would be able to enforce such patent ownership again a Chinese company based in China? In which jurisdiction would they undertake legal action that is likely to result in actually receiving payments?

I think that some of the processes and technology would be difficult to replicate without inside knowledge, e.g. the process that Airbus uses to bond aluminium (oops, I nearly wrote "aluminum" - bloody Americans!) alloy to composite.

The Chinese are slowly coming around to the idea of intellectual property. Slowly. In the meantime, it's considerably more difficult to counterfeit highly sophisticated industrial processes than it is to make pirate DVDs or knock-offs of French handbags.

 

[samh004]

(oops, I nearly wrote "aluminum" - bloody Americans!)

It was -um but then changed to -ium, and both are recognised. Quite a crazy history.