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Avoiding the Qantas 787

Pleb Status

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A rebuttal to the 'other' QF 787 thread...

With the arrival of the first QF 789 into SYD yesterday, QF will soon be serving up their 'luxury' short haul 737 Y experience to their long haul 789 Y pax. The new 789 Y seat width is less than that offered on the current QF A330 and A380 medium/long haul fleet and the increased Y seat pitch now only equals competing airlines (SQ, VA 77W etc).

Even in J, QF have admitted that they are using the exact same seat (but fitted with a sliding partition) as currently used on the QF A330 fleet and by other esteemed airlines like RwandAir (Air Rwanda). It is reported that the same J seat will also be fitted to the QF A380 fleet commencing April 2018 resulting in no difference between the A380 and the 789 J in the medium term.

In my previous travels on the 789 with other airlines (EY, BA etc), the purported advances by the Boeing PR department in cabin pressure and humidity etc were not noticeable compared to travelling on other modern aircraft (A380 for example). The 789 is not particularly quiet aircraft during flight and the window dimming is an absolute joke if you need a dark cabin to sleep. As a positive, I actually like how poor the dimming system is as you can see outside all of the time.

So, at best, travelling on the QF 789 will be no better than the current QF A330 and A380 (once the J retrofit has occurred) fleets and for most (those in Y) it will be a step down from the current QF A330 and A380 fleets.

Therefore, if travelling in Y on QF, I will be trying to avoid the 787 where possible. If travelling in J or W on QF, I certainly will not be 'chasing' the 787.

I should make it clear that I do not blame QF for what they have done with the 789 in Y or W (the regional J seat should have been replaced however). Most 787 operators have done the same. What does get a bit annoying is all of the sycophants in the 'independent' media just reprinting QF press releases about how 'revolutionary' in the QF 789 is when it is not...

(yay for me... my 2000th post!!)
 
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mannej

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As a point of reference, the difference in pitch between the QF 737 and the TR 787 (30” v 31”) is extremely noticeable.
 

Pleb Status

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As a point of reference, the difference in pitch between the QF 737 and the TR 787 (30” v 31”) is extremely noticeable.
Agree.

But I also doubt that the 32in seat pitch in the QF 789 will be around for long. Either it will be 'harmonised' back to 31in to match 'the rest of the fleet' or QF may try to introduce YX and the space will be created by moving the remaining seats closer together.
 

AustraliaPoochie

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I have travelled on the 787 with JQ (short haul when JQ did the moving of the 787 around Aust - dom pax on int flight), and (Air)NZ in premY, but on the long haul, 3 across fills me with dread.
Window view would pull me 35% towards booking the 787 as a plane to use, but 3 across, wow, thats tight.
Even the QF 330 has 2 across on the window sides, but 3 across... dread that.
Oh, and thanks for the tip that the 787 Y seats are smaller than any of the other planes around, didn't notice that with that 2 JQ Y flights I took, as they were SYD - MEL only.
 

andyhui01

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I roll my eyes everytime the media and the "bloggers" who were invited on the launch flight all drooling over how revolutionary this plane is (just because they were invited, they have to write a fairytale). Jetstar has been operating this for years and so have many other carriers. (inc AirNZ who made a tongue in cheek post on Social Media).

They have the guts to call it a revolutionary step in passenger comfort even though they run the LCC configuration with a "revolutionary" 32" seat pitch. CX, SQ and even VA's 777 have always had a 32" Seat Pitch.

+1 to another AFF avoiding the QF 787

ps. I am aware that virtually all operators now use the 3-3-3 config on the 789. I still maintain that this is a LCC config and refuse to fly on any legacy operator that tries to get away with it. I am fairly confident that SQ will not be running the 3-3-3 config on their 789's. If they did, I think I might have to finally give up and just accept it. But if SQ can make the economics work on the original Boeing config and continue to attract customers who are happy to pay a small premium, I can't see why QF can't be confident in their brand, loyalty, service and staff attitutude to do the same.
 

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I am fairly confident that SQ will not be running the 3-3-3 config on their 789's. If they did, I think I might have to finally give up and just accept it. But if SQ can make the economics work on the original Boeing config and continue to attract customers who are happy to pay a small premium, I can't see why QF can't be confident in their brand, loyalty, service and staff attitutude to do the same.
I am worried that the SQ 78J will make it onto SIN-PER with 9Y. SIN-BNE will go all 359 for SQ in the near future and hopefully SIN-PER will go that way as well once a few more 359 are delivered.
 

moa999

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Great guys, more room for the rest of us.

I'll take pitch over width any day.
 

davidj

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What does get a bit annoying is all of the sycophants in the 'independent' media just reprinting QF press releases about how 'revolutionary' in the QF 789 is when it not...
Fake news is upon us (again).

Its a bit hard to write an independent review when you've been invited to an event, presumably cost free. It wouldn't go down too well if a 'journalist' wrote the frank truth, at the risk of tarnishing their relationship with Qantas and possibly future launch events, would it?

Nevertheless there are plenty of sheep who will gobble up this dribble. How is that saying.. never let facts get in the way of a good story.

Now we just need to wait for "The QFA 787 - shockingly bad biz/econ-class seat" threads to start making an appearance.
 

Kolo

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Yes the media has been well over the top considering all the airlines already flying the 787 in Australia, including JQ! I would have thought the bigger story will be the first PER -LHR flight. But you have to admire QF PR who have earned a hefty bonus.
 

levelnine

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Excellent thread. Completely agree with the OP.

A dreadful plane from a passenger comfort perspective, especially in Y.

You will never hear that from any airline 'journalists' (the more accurate term is arguably publicists) because they are well and truly in the throes of Qantas after having been wined and dined by them (see, eg, this post by David Flynn from AusBT: AusBusinessTraveller on Twitter).
 

mannej

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I can’t help but sense a bit of jealousy considering that David frequents AFF on a fairly regular basis.

I would have thought the level of comfort in Y comes down to more than just the plane itself, surely the hard product accounts for something as well?
 

davidj

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(see, eg, this post by David Flynn from AusBT: AusBusinessTraveller on Twitter).
That site threw me... I thought you'd linked the Qantas twitter page there for a moment!

Has that site disclosed any kickbacks from Qantas, or other airlines? Too often 'arms length' social media is funded by corporate marketing departments.

Well folks, its exclusive here on AFF, we broke the news first, "Avoiding the Qantas 787".
 

Cool Cat Phil

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I can’t help but sense a bit of jealousy considering that David frequents AFF on a fairly regular basis.

I would have thought the level of comfort in Y comes down to more than just the plane itself, surely the hard product accounts for something as well?
+1, I agree entirely.

Some very sad, depressing & pessimistic subjective opinions being sprayed in this thread.

This is Particularly the case as no paying passengers have yet set foot on QF’s B787, and yet experienced both the hard & soft product.
 

Ansett

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I agree and will avoid the 787 as much as possible. I am glad that QF will be flying the A380 via Singapore to London.
 

DavidFlynn

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Its a bit hard to write an independent review when you've been invited to an event, presumably cost free.

Actually it's very easy if one is a professional journalist, because you're trained in independence and knowing that your first duty is to the reader.
 

DavidFlynn

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Has that site disclosed any kickbacks from Qantas, or other airlines?
I declared the 'travel as a guest of' bit in all my articles resulting from this trip (something you won't see all media do) – however, your point about 'disclosing kickbacks' is moot because I didn't receive any kickbacks, I never have accepted any (or asked for any, again, unlike some media) and never will. I was invited on a press trip, I accepted based on the news value for readers and believe the stories produced so far (and those to come this week) indicate the trip was more than worthwhile from that perspective.
 
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DavidFlynn

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You will never hear that from any airline 'journalists' (the more accurate term is arguably publicists) because they are well and truly in the throes of Qantas after having been wined and dined by them (see, eg, this post by David Flynn from AusBT: AusBusinessTraveller on Twitter).
1. It's "in thrall to", not "in the throes of"

2. you call a set-menu delivery dinner 'wining and dining'? Not really! And for me that was a working dinner anyway, for a while I had laptop in front of me and meals being served to the side as I wordsmithed away.
 

under the radar

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+1, I agree entirely.

Some very sad, depressing & pessimistic subjective opinions being sprayed in this thread.

This is Particularly the case as no paying passengers have yet set foot on QF’s B787, and yet experienced both the hard & soft product.
Exactly...'tis 'sad'...But very funny too. This thread (and many others on this site) provides me with many LOL moments, and the reason I stopped posting on this site...too much 'negativity' (insert various other words) ;) for me, but good for a laugh to read. Keep it up! :)
 

RooFlyer

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Travel journalism (including hotels) I think has always been a tricky place to work in. Unless one's journal is flash enough to fund ALL the travel independently, then accepting freebies is part of the job. Unfortunately in that case you will never know how you have been treated on a particular experience compared to a regular punter (except of course by talking to the regular punters). Readers just have to form a judgement about the quality of the piece/review in question and those over time; I think anyone who continually writes gushingly about their experiences won't be treated seriously (of course in the weekend type mags being treated un-seriously is not an impediment to continued employment).

I treat Ben Shlappig's reviews at One Mile at a Time with a large grain of salt as, even though he may be paying his own way with cash or points, he would be pretty recognisable (especially when he comments on his contacts with the airline/hotel) and I doubt I'd consistently get as good a ride as he does. The pictures are undoubtedly the most useful part of that site for me.

Airlines are a service industry as well as transport, and will be subject to lots of criticism (people don't worry if everything goes as it should); those in the industry who don't like criticism (I'm certain I couldn't hack it) will eventually depart.

As for commenting in advance of a plane's configuration, I think around here we have some experienced travellers who know their seats and know their layouts ... probably more pertinent observations that we'll get from some of those that travel on it later.
 

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