AS Alaska to acquire HA Hawaiian

[justinbrett]

The other middle of the road method is to just have HA fly to SEA directly for now. Run NRT <> SEA as a HA flight or AS (operated by HA) for example. For all booking purposes both show up on AS / HA the same and is treated the same, you just have a HA livery and configuration.

At the moment they are talking about merging into a single airline with two brands. This has never been done before. This is different to BA/IB, AF/KL etc which are still separate airlines.

It might be the case all flights are sold as AS flights, with a band for HA branded flights (similar to how Qantaslink has a band of QF flight numbers).

Eg AS100 - AS399 are Hawaiian flights.

As much as it feels bizarre to brand what was Hawaiian flights as Alaska; it's a fact that the majority of flights operated by AS don't touch the state of Alaska. In some regards that's a unique connection with Qantas, the other airline named for a state (and territory) that makes up a minority of their home market.

 

[SYD]

At the moment they are talking about merging into a single airline with two brands. This has never been done before. This is different to BA/IB, AF/KL etc which are still separate airlines.

That‘s effectively what happened with AN and NZ. It caused all sorts of ructions like NZ vetoing AN operating the SYD-LAX route. The rest is sad history.

From the archives: The Ansett collapse

This story from the Australian Aviation archives is from September 2011, when Geoffrey Thomas wrote about the collapse of Ansett Australia.

australianaviation.com.au

It might be the case all flights are sold as AS flights, with a band for HA branded flights (similar to how Qantaslink has a band of QF flight numbers).

Eg AS100 - AS399 are Hawaiian flights.

My reading of the pressers is to maintain the seperate brands and presumably seperate codes. For want of a better example, QF and JQ (or maybe AO) but not necessarily the “Full Service” v LCC segmentation but Business and Leisure.

The Story of Australian Airlines

simpleflying.com

Although you’d probably expect to see most flights with each others code…

As much as it feels bizarre to brand what was Hawaiian flights as Alaska; it's a fact that the majority of flights operated by AS don't touch the state of Alaska. In some regards that's a unique connection with Qantas, the other airline named for a state (and territory) that makes up a minority of their home market.

But quite a large number do operate to/from and within Alaska (not surprisingly). But yes, it’s a quirk to see so many flights from the west coast hubs (part of which was due to the acquisition of VX (in particular SFO and SAN hubs from memory).

City to city routes - HTML sitemap - Alaska Airlines

See our list of flight route pages providing low fare Alaska Airlines flights.

www.alaskaair.com

 

[justinbrett]

My reading of the pressers is to maintain the seperate brands and presumably seperate codes. For want of a better example, QF and JQ (or maybe AO) but not necessarily the “Full Service” v LCC segmentation but Business and Leisure.

I watched the full press conference. AS CEO was pretty clear it was a single airline, with single "operations sheet". He also clarified it has never been done before, so any QF or other example is irrelevant as that's not what he's planning (although, it could become too hard). Single AOC (even QF and JQ have separate AOCs).

But quite a large number do operate to/from and within Alaska (not surprisingly). But yes, it’s a quirk to see so many flights from the west coast hubs (part of which was due to the acquisition of VX (in particular SFO and SAN hubs from memory).

City to city routes - HTML sitemap - Alaska Airlines

See our list of flight route pages providing low fare Alaska Airlines flights.

www.alaskaair.com

By the proportion of their network, Alaska is quite a minority. I think to say 20% of the network would be extremely generous. In fact QLD is probably a good comparison for Qantas.

VX certainly accelerated that (for CA) but the huge numbers of flights out of SEA & PDX were there before.

Alaska Flights and Destinations - FlightConnections

All Alaska flights on an interactive flight map, including Alaska timetables and flight schedules. Find Alaska routes, destinations and airports, see where they fly and book your flight!

www.flightconnections.com

 

[elanshin]

I watched the full press conference. AS CEO was pretty clear it was a single airline, with single "operations sheet". He also clarified it has never been done before, so any QF or other example is irrelevant as that's not what he's planning (although, it could become too hard). Single AOC (even QF and JQ have separate AOCs).

Maybe more like FM and MU over in China where FM is wholly owned subsidiary of MU and is treated the same as MU but keeps different branding and planes for various reasons.

It could move in that direction given it definitely wouldn't sound right to be flying "Alaskan" to Hawaii instead of "Hawaiian".

 

[justinbrett]

It could move in that direction given it definitely wouldn't sound right to be flying "Alaskan" to Hawaii instead of "Hawaiian".

Plenty of AS flights into HNL right now, so not necessarily true. As I stated before, the vast majority of AS flights don't touch the state of Alaska.

Just like the vast majority of QF flights don't touch QLD or NT.

 

[elanshin]

Plenty of AS flights into HNL right now, so not necessarily true. As I stated before, the vast majority of AS flights don't touch the state of Alaska.

Just like the vast majority of QF flights don't touch QLD or NT.

While that's true, from a marketing and experience perspective, there is a lot of value from the name "Hawaiian Airlines" to extract. Having the Hawaiian feel as you get on the plane, the look, the music, even that photo of the plane signalling the start of a holiday.

And while you could do the same thing on an 'AS Bird', I feel it would be a different perception getting on an Alaskan Airline in Australia bound for a holiday to Hawaii than getting on Hawaiian Airlines.

 

[justinbrett]

While that's true, from a marketing and experience perspective, there is a lot of value from the name "Hawaiian Airlines" to extract. Having the Hawaiian feel as you get on the plane, the look, the music, even that photo of the plane signalling the start of a holiday.

And while you could do the same thing on an 'AS Bird', I feel it would be a different perception getting on an Alaskan Airline in Australia bound for a holiday to Hawaii than getting on Hawaiian Airlines.

I agree, and I suspect that's why they kept the brand - but I think eventually the HA brand will get whittled down to the inter-island services and then a combined brand (likely AS, but possibly a new one) will be used for everything else. Just a function of having a lot of narrowbody routes into HNL that won't be exclusive to HNL, so much easier to paint them in AS colours and use them throughout the network.

Unless they do something weird like paint AS on one side on the plane and HA on the other, which is what RAAF 76SQN and 79SQN did with their Hawks. Unlikely in a commercial setting though.

 

[SYD]

I agree, and I suspect that's why they kept the brand - but I think eventually the HA brand will get whittled down to the inter-island services and then a combined brand (likely AS, but possibly a new one) will be used for everything else.

They‘d loose the Japan market if they made them AS flights to HNL! A complete mind cough* .

Even the Oz market - peeps would be scratching their heads “What, fly to Hawaii via Alaska? WTF!”…

Having said that, Norwegian floated the idea of flying non-stop EZE-PER… That made sense - not.

World-first South American flight to boost WA tourism

The world-first air route “would be a real game changer for both Argentina and Australia”.

thewest.com.au

Didn’t age well that article nor similar…

 

[justinbrett]

They‘d loose the Japan market if they made them AS flights to HNL! A complete mind cough* .

Even the Oz market - peeps would be scratching their heads “What, fly to Hawaii via Alaska? WTF!”…

Having said that, Norwegian floated the idea of flying non-stop EZE-PER… That made sense - not.

World-first South American flight to boost WA tourism

The world-first air route “would be a real game changer for both Argentina and Australia”.

thewest.com.au

Didn’t age well that article nor similar…

I disagree. Plenty of people flying LAS-LAX or SFO-JFK and not even raising an eyebrow their flight is operated by Alaskan.

This is not a new thing. Might seem weird to some Aussies not used to it but AS has been a non-AK airline for a long time.

 

[SYD]

I disagree. Plenty of people flying LAS-LAX or SFO-JFK and not even raising an eyebrow their flight is operated by Alaskan.

This is not a new thing. Might seem weird to some Aussies not used to it but AS has been a non-AK airline for a long time.

Oh, I don’t disagree on the US domestic market. They’ve been doing it for decades. Comment was on the foreign international market. Marketing is everything.Depends on how they pitch it.

 

[justinbrett]

Oh, I don’t disagree on the US domestic market. They’ve been doing it for decades. Comment was on the foreign international market. Marketing is everything.

That's why it will be gradual. But eventually..

I mean people fly Qatar to get to London. Stranger things already exist.

 

[SYD]

I mean people fly Qatar to get to London. Stranger things already exist.

But we’re used to a Kangaroo route to somewhere else. You have to go via somewhere - preferably on the way.

25+ years ago I first became aware of AS looking out of the lounge(s) windows at LAX pondering why there were sooo many flights to Alaska…!

 

[justinbrett]

But we’re used to a Kangaroo route to somewhere else. You have to go via somewhere - preferably on the way.

25+ years ago I first became aware of AS looking out of the lounge(s) windows at LAX pondering why there were sooo many flights to Alaska…!

So what does that say for all the pax flying Virgin?

I don’t think most pax take airline names so literally. They’re just looking for cheap fares.

 

[SYD]

So what does that say for all the pax flying Virgin?

Quite.

Not for the consistent experience flying partner airlines such as HA.

 

[jakeseven7]

I wonder how long it will take to get Hawaiian into Oneworld, even if it’s just a quick move to affiliate status?

 

[HS-TQE]

Oneworld Connect (or Affiliate) would be relatively quick I'm assuming, ditto with Star Alliance Connect. Only need 3 partners sponsoring, and is relatively cheaper.

Getting Full Membership in any of the 3 major Alliances is a longer and more costlier process.

 

[Lynda2475]

I wonder how long it will take to get Hawaiian into Oneworld, even if it’s just a quick move to affiliate status?

I hope Hawaiian comes in as a full partner not a Connect partner like Fiji Airways, not having full OW lounge rights on Connect is a PITA.

 

[jakeseven7]

I hope Hawaiian comes in as a full partner not a Connect partner like Fiji Airways, not having full OW lounge rights on Connect is a PITA.

Yes agree, I’m sure they will. Just wondering if they will do Connect first to get there quickly…

 

[SYD]

Yes agree, I’m sure they will. Just wondering if they will do Connect first to get there quickly…

Noooo! OWC is a complete joke…

As mentioned up thread, if AS effectively integrated HA under one ops, then they could be effectively in OW “overnight”?

An “affiliate” would be likely if they’re still flying as HA brand. But of course there’ll be the need for training, signage integration of lounge access etc. That takes time.

 

[HS-TQE]

Noooo! OWC is a complete joke…

As mentioned up thread, if AS effectively integrated HA under one ops, then they could be effectively in OW “overnight”?

An “affiliate” would be likely if they’re still flying as HA brand. But of course there’ll be the need for training, signage integration of lounge access etc. That takes time.

HA would effectively be a Oneworld affiliate in the same way US Airways was a Oneworld affiliate when they were merging their AOCs.

Though as you said, there are some costs including training, signage changes and IT updates.