Article: Qantas Will Refurbish Its Airbus A330s

[RichardMEL]

I hope the A330's are not in their "dying years". Because they'll likely get replaced by long range narrow body aircraft and I would much rather fly medium to long distance economy in a refurbished A330 than a new A321,

The 787-10's due from 2027 iirc are to fly most of the medium to longer haul routes the 330 currently does.

Migt you see an A321XLR plying say PER-SIN and the like? possibly, but in the main the 321's will likely open up thinner routes while the 78X will handle the higher demand missions into major Asian hubs, HNL and so on.

 

[elanshin]

Will they keep some 330s for dom duty going forward though?

 

[moa999]

Can't keep them forever.. the first 321XLRs are going to be in a domestic config.
20 J 180 Y. But likely with J recliners.

Versus a 330-230 at 27 J 224 Y
and a 737-800 at 12 J 162 Y

So basically about 75% of the 332s capacity.

It still gives Qantas optionality in case Boeing or Airbus manage to launch a better Middle of the Market (MOM) aircraft (say an updated 767 that has it's sweetspot on shorter routes)

 

[Steve994]

Interesting you mention the 767. They still sell them as freighters. I'm surprised, and disappointed, that Boeing haven't given it new wings and engines like they did to the 777 to make the 777X. Like you say its the sweet spot for the routes it would operate on, and a lot cheaper than starting with a clean sheet design, which is what they were supposedly considering a couple of years ago.

 

[exceladdict]

The 787-10's due from 2027 iirc are to fly most of the medium to longer haul routes the 330 currently does.

Migt you see an A321XLR plying say PER-SIN and the like? possibly, but in the main the 321's will likely open up thinner routes while the 78X will handle the higher demand missions into major Asian hubs, HNL and so on.

the first 321XLRs are going to be in a domestic config.
20 J 180 Y. But likely with J recliners.

Versus a 330-230 at 27 J 224 Y
and a 737-800 at 12 J 162 Y

So basically about 75% of the 332s capacity.

Though I only flew it twice last year, SIN/PER was very full and leisure heavy lately. I think this is a good example where a widebody with extra Y, as opposed to lie flat J or Y+, might be offered as opposed to the 321.

However, JQ restarting the route as well as scoot and increased SQ frequencies will probably pinch passengers at both the price conscious and premium/corporate end, so hopefully we see QF throw something in to make J more competitive on the 321s.

 

[moa999]

that Boeing haven't given it new wings and engines like they did to the 777 to make the 777X. Like you say its the sweet spot for the routes it would operate on, and a lot cheaper than starting with a clean sheet design

I think Boeing in particular has run the numbers multiple times.
The 767 is so old that cost wise it's probably almost the same as a clean sheet design, so you are probably talking $5bn+ development.

And while you might get an efficient aircraft, you are constrained in pricing by the 737/320s, so they seemingly can't get the economics to work.

Need to get a business case where you can sell a large number of aircraft at a decent profit to recover development costs.

 

[RichardMEL]

OT but Boeing has been stuck on the question of the "NMA" (new midsize market aircraft) for years - as replacement for 757/767 broadly. The 321's caught them napping, and well MAX and 777X issues have shifted everything of course. Boeing can't afford the dev costs right now on a proposed 797, and Airbus has taken full advantage with the 321XLR and neos

In theory the 737 MAX 10 comes close to the type of role of the 757 so it mudfies the waters a bit for the NMA

In many ways, the 787-8 is a 763 type replacement of sorts, though capable of much more. Remembering the original QF order had some 788's slated for mainline, but as we know they went to JQ and then the 789's arrived, and that sent things in.a different direction.

 

[elanshin]

In many ways, the 787-8 is a 763 type replacement of sorts, though capable of much more. Remembering the original QF order had some 788's slated for mainline, but as we know they went to JQ and then the 789's arrived, and that sent things in.a different direction.

I wish they kept more of the 788 orders for mainline. Could've been a 787 + 380 only Int'l fleet at this point waiting on sunrise. But alas.

I always found it nice in the 2010s flying NH or JL with their 787 dominant fleet for medium haul in Asia. (At least after all the spontaneous fire situation at the start).

 

[oz_mark]

The 787-10's due from 2027 iirc are to fly most of the medium to longer haul routes the 330 currently does.

Migt you see an A321XLR plying say PER-SIN and the like? possibly, but in the main the 321's will likely open up thinner routes while the 78X will handle the higher demand missions into major Asian hubs, HNL and so on.

We've seen Qantas run 737s on PER-SIN, so I think using an A320 wouldn't be much of s stretch....

 

[elanshin]

We've seen Qantas run 737s on PER-SIN, so I think using an A320 wouldn't be much of s stretch....

Ultimately comes down to demand. Maybe there'll be increasing demand for PER that QF runs both a widebody and an extra 321XLR.

 

[SYD]

Ultimately comes down to demand. Maybe there'll be increasing demand for PER that QF runs both a widebody and an extra 321XLR.

With the PER airport / QF fight put to bed, we could expect some expansion in ops there and potential to swing A330s off elsewhere?

What do the current QF71/72 aircraft due before / after PER<->SIN? Presumably they don’t just turnaround?

 

[jrfsp]

With the PER airport / QF fight put to bed, we could expect some expansion in ops there and potential to swing A330s off elsewhere?

What do the current QF71/72 aircraft due before / after PER<->SIN? Presumably they don’t just turnaround?

Transcon sectors

 

[SYD]

Transcon sectors

Which was the stickler for starting PER-JNB A330 service (from different terminals).

 

[jrfsp]

Which was the stickler for starting PER-JNB A330 service (from different terminals).

Apparently...although JQ will be doing exactly that with their new intl services from PER which will involve towing across the runway......whats good for the goose?

 

[oz_mark]

With the PER airport / QF fight put to bed, we could expect some expansion in ops there and potential to swing A330s off elsewhere?

What do the current QF71/72 aircraft due before / after PER<->SIN? Presumably they don’t just turnaround?

Various things happen, but the aircraft operating PER-SIN sometimes operates SIN-BNE or SIN-MEL, and the aircraft from MEL or BNE operates to PER. Or they can do trans-con sectors...

 

[SYD]

Various things happen, but the aircraft operating PER-SIN sometimes operates SIN-BNE or SIN-MEL, and the aircraft from MEL or BNE operates to PER. Or they can do trans-con sectors...

Yes, in the back of my head I recall someone mentioning elsewhere the PER-SIN-BNE pivot (which makes operational sense).

 

[dasheighty]

I have noticed the PER-SIN-MEL/BNE pivot often happens when there is a late arrival of the PER-SIN aircraft from transcon duties.
As QF71/72 is my most regular flight pair, and the memories of the crammed 737 to SIN along with the company bean-counter driven Y seats for less than 8 hr flights, I hope the A330s remain, as the change to an A321 narrow body will probably spell the end of the QF experience for me.

 

[Qantas747]

As QF71/72 is my most regular flight pair, and the memories of the crammed 737 to SIN along with the company bean-counter driven Y seats for less than 8 hr flights, I hope the A330s remain, as the change to an A321 narrow body will probably spell the end of the QF experience for me.

I would say the same. I've stayed loyal to Qantas with the change back to A330s on SYD-DPS, which gives more flexibility for A330 and A380 options and a choice of routes to CGK, SIN or DPS (which all suit my needs). But if flights such as QF43/44 went to a narrowbody again on a permanent basis, I'd find it harder to justify sticking with QF over GA or SQ.