Abbott in Government

[Skyring]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Thanks to all for the entertainment and conversation over the past few months. It's been an interesting campaign, and I'm glad it ended with a good result: democracy.

Though I'm not too sure about some of those Senate choices!

Well, the election's over and that massive thread deserves a trip to the boneyard. The first dawn of Abbstralia is A New Way and we can turn from ridiculing promises to cantankerising performance.

First issue - those microparties. How to stop the massive ballot papers and the ragtag ratbags.

Let me be plain. I think that the best answer to someone criticising the quality of politicians is to ask, "Well, why don't you run? You'd then have your perfect candidate to vote for!"

There's a place for good independents and minor parties. Often the big parties vote together on certain issues and ignore others. If we frequent flyers ran a political party, we'd have our own agenda, I'm sure, something based around better lounges, relaxed curfews, longer seat pitches, lower fares and better bubbly.

So I don't support making it harder for small parties to register. 500 members and a couple of thousand dollar deposit seems about right to me. That's a lot more than many other community organisations have to put up. Raise the bar for small parties to register and we might as well say that we only want the big guys.

The above the line voting is a rort, as we have seen. It takes power away from the voter and puts it in the hands of political hacks and "preference brokers." Sure, you choose which party gets your vote, but you then lose all control over your preferences.

But with a hundred names on the ballot paper, who has the time to number them all? Who has any idea whether to put the Lego Party ahead of the Scrabble Party? What are their policies? Are they better than the Happy Happy Joy Joy Party with their positive platform and smiling frontman? So most voters shrug their shoulders, put a "1" above the line for a party and head off to the sausage sizzle, hoping for the best.

With the result we see. The national government is going to be the plaything of people whose idea of a good time involves kangaroo cough and a tinnie. Do we want these people determining the fate of the carbon tax, NBN and PPL? Can their votes be bought with a slab and a bucket?

My answer is to keep the Senate voting system as it is, but to make it optional preferential voting. Instead of numbering 1-100, you can number 1-10. Or just 1. Vote for just the candidates you want, and stop short of voting for those you don't want.

 

[medhead]

Michael Kroger waxing lyrical on qanda about how the economy can't stand for them to reduce the debt any quicker that the old government planned to do. WTF? After 3 years of Abbott demanding that the ALP do exactly that? What a mob of hypocritical liars!

Oh and they're going to increase jobs at the natural grow rate. Gee, that'll be a challenge.

 

[drsmithy]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Michael Kroger waxing lyrical on qanda about how the economy can't stand for them to reduce the debt any quicker that the old government planned to do. WTF? After 3 years of Abbott demanding that the ALP do exactly that? What a mob of hypocritical liars!

Oh and they're going to increase jobs at the natural grow rate. Gee, that'll be a challenge.

Then there was George Brandis going on (with a straight face !) about how since the Liberals now have a majority, then the people representing the half of the population that didn't vote for them should "respect the mandate".

Coming from a strong supporter of Abbot, who basically spent the last 3-5 years doing exactly what he thinks Labor, et al, shouldn't do, that's some weapons-grade hypocrisy, right there.

As with when most conservatives speak, if I hadn't been watching long enough to know he was serious, I'd assume it was satire.

 

[drsmithy]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Michael Kroger waxing lyrical on qanda about how the economy can't stand for them to reduce the debt any quicker that the old government planned to do.

Not only that, but almost all of their "savings" come from axing foreign aid.

As Tanya Plibersek rightly pointed out, $1.5b a year in an economy the size of Australia's barely even qualifies as a rounding error. Who would have guessed a mere week or two ago that the difference between responsible Government and economic vandalism was a few fractions of a percent ?

 

[Sprucegoose]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Is it me or has a calm descended over the country??

 

[casanovawa]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Calmness and relief i think...

At least hopefully the numbers and predictions this lot put out should be half believable than the bunch of fantasy and out right lies and one missed target after another of the last mob...

 

[Skyring]

Well, the election's over and that massive thread deserves a trip to the boneyard. The first dawn of Abbstralia is A New Way and we can turn from ridiculing promises to cantankerising performance.

First issue - those microparties. How to stop the massive ballot papers and the ragtag ratbags.

Let me be plain. I think that the best answer to someone criticising the quality of politicians is to ask, "Well, why don't you run? You'd then have your perfect candidate to vote for!"

There's a place for good independents and minor parties. Often the big parties vote together on certain issues and ignore others. If we frequent flyers ran a political party, we'd have our own agenda, I'm sure, something based around better lounges, relaxed curfews, longer seat pitches, lower fares and better bubbly.

So I don't support making it harder for small parties to register. 500 members and a couple of thousand dollar deposit seems about right to me. That's a lot more than many other community organisations have to put up. Raise the bar for small parties to register and we might as well say that we only want the big guys.

The above the line voting is a rort, as we have seen. It takes power away from the voter and puts it in the hands of political hacks and "preference brokers." Sure, you choose which party gets your vote, but you then lose all control over your preferences.

But with a hundred names on the ballot paper, who has the time to number them all? Who has any idea whether to put the Lego Party ahead of the Scrabble Party? What are their policies? Are they better than the Happy Happy Joy Joy Party with their positive platform and smiling frontman? So most voters shrug their shoulders, put a "1" above the line for a party and head off to the sausage sizzle, hoping for the best.

With the result we see. The national government is going to be the plaything of people whose idea of a good time involves kangaroo cough and a tinnie. Do we want these people determining the fate of the carbon tax, NBN and PPL? Can their votes be bought with a slab and a bucket?

My answer is to keep the Senate voting system as it is, but to make it optional preferential voting. Instead of numbering 1-100, you can number 1-10. Or just 1. Vote for just the candidates you want, and stop short of voting for those you don't want.

 

[Pushka]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

I saw a couple of our new Senators last night. Two of them looked reasonable. The other was downright scary. And the fourth was the roo poo thrower. Can just imagine some of the more traditional Politicians having to listen to and broker a deal with them. Might even get some reaction from Penny Wong. What have we come to!

I wonder if they realise they've just committed themselves to 6 years of Canberra. I doubt it.

 

[medhead]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Calmness and relief i think...

At least hopefully the numbers and predictions this lot put out should be half believable than the bunch of fantasy and out right lies and one missed target after another of the last mob...

That's so funny. This mob is now revelled as liars for the last 3 years. You voted on the hope the new mob will get it right. Yet here they are soon everything they attacked in the last mob. Maximum hubris.

 

[Pushka]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

I think we must live in parallel universes.

 

[Pukka]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

That's so funny. This mob is now revelled as liars for the last 3 years. You voted on the hope the new mob will get it right. Yet here they are soon everything they attacked in the last mob. Maximum hubris.

Nice to see you're giving them a chance though

 

[cove]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Can you sell a Senate seat? If Bob Carr can retire and be replaced is there a mechanism to stop Senate positions being purchased by the highest bidder?

 

[drross]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Interesting cove. Sounds like the old roman senate.

 

[serfty]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Can you sell a Senate seat? If Bob Carr can retire and be replaced is there a mechanism to stop Senate positions being purchased by the highest bidder?

Nup, the ALP can simply put any eligible person they want in his place as his spot is "their's" being re-won in 2013.

Before the 80's, it was the represented state government who would choose a replacement senator, the convention being the appointee would come from the same party. (Of course this was turned on it's head 1975 when Joh Bjelke-Petersen refused to appoint the ALP's choice of Mal Colsten leading to the Liberals / Country party coalition having control of the senate).

 

[Pushka]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Nup, the ALP can simply put any eligible person they want in his place as his spot is "their's" being won in 2010.

That's how Carr got there in the first place. Figured after the UN and summit that life as a Shadow Minister wouldn't be that appealing to him. Wasn't there long, hopefully not long enough to pick up a fat pension.

Rudd isn't a popular lad by hanging around. The media will be hanging out for more of his tidbits no doubt.

 

[medhead]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Nice to see you're giving them a chance though

I did give them a chance. Last night, 2 nights after the election, Michael Kroger and George Brandis applied different standards now they're in government. Basically they told us they've been lying for the last 3 years. I didn't have to wait long did I? Even I expected it would take them longer to do this sort of thing.

 

[Warks]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

What a wonderful world it is:

Pro-gun Liberal Democrat Senator-elect David Leyonhjelm says US gun crime is a 'black on black' problem | News.com.au

I just don't know what to say.

 

[Warks]

Speaking of which we all hear about how people stop spending money when an election is approaching. Anecdotally I have heard this extensively in the past few months since the original election was called. I can't for the life of me think how it would influence people not to get their car serviced but that's what my garage told me. I can't believe it stops people getting their pest control done but that's what my pestie told me. I can't believe people don't buy whitegoods but that's what my Retravision guy told me so there must be something to it.

We went out on Monday morning and bought a new dishwasher, confident that with Australia under new management that we could afford it and it wouldn't be taken away due to some new tax. It gave the kickstart to the economy that Australia has been crying out for.

 

[Pushka]

Pass on the US system where the election process takes almost 12 months.
Julia's advance nomination of a date (changed by Kevin) was bad enough.

We know the date of state elections four years in advance.

 

[casanovawa]

Pass on the US system where the election process takes almost 12 months.
Julia's advance nomination of a date (changed by Kevin) was bad enough.

I wasn't suggesting replicating the whole US system, i was just saying that what they have is a process whereby candidates have to prove themselves to the people prior to voting day so its not all left down to the one day (or more like 2 minutes in the booth) to try and figure everything out, i was wondering if there might be a process, voluntary for those interested, to prequalify a party to get on the ballot in the first place... To improve the quality of the choices or decisions on the day...