"... we'll shortly announce a major investment to improve our Frequent Flyer program"

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home market dominance is a crucial reason why Air New Zealand
When I talk to my friends living in New Zealand, they still choose to use AirNZ Airpoints Credit Cards, simply because there are no other options (there used to be QFF cards, but those disappeared a few years ago).

Imagine their shock when I introduced them to the AirNZ Partner Reward Chart, and how much cheaper it was than redeeming on AirNZ flights (admittedly, Star Alliance availability out of NZ is always quite limited).
 
When I talk to my friends living in New Zealand, they still choose to use AirNZ Airpoints Credit Cards, simply because there are no other options (there used to be QFF cards, but those disappeared a few years ago).

Imagine their shock when I introduced them to the AirNZ Partner Reward Chart, and how much cheaper it was than redeeming on AirNZ flights (admittedly, Star Alliance availability out of NZ is always quite limited).
Thanks for that didn't know it existed!
 
Is the deposit also refundable if you cancel?
I would like to think so but doesn't exactly say @Seat0B , need to delve further into it tomorrow.
Normally with fully refundable/free cancellation, you pay upfront anyway and has a date/time where you forfeit $ if you cancel ie 2pm/6pm day of/before arrival.

Can't see why "secure with 20% deposit" is there unless now given an option not have to pay in full (which is usual practice)
Had a quick look but need to go to payment page - will check it out tomorrow and report back.
 
Those figures seem far too steep, they'd rule out almost all FF redemptions in Australia.
This would even rule out Qatar's 90k one way in Q suites to Europe - that's not an $18k return ticket.

10c per point???? How and where - am I doing calculations wrong?

Recent redemptions:
  • SYD-SIN-FCO on SQ, 3x J - 130k KrisFlyer points during the Olympics. $8,300 ticket. 6.3c/mile.
  • NBO-DOH-PER-CBR on QR/QF, mixed J/F ticket - 105k AA points. $14,600 ticket. 13.9c/mile
  • SYD-BNK in Y - 8k points, $320. 4c/mile
  • MEL-SYD in Y. 8k points $280. 4c/mile
Granted doesn’t include the cost of taxes & airport fees.

But aspirationally 4c/mile in Y and 10c/mile in J/F is possible.
 
Recent redemptions:
  • SYD-SIN-FCO on SQ, 3x J - 130k KrisFlyer points during the Olympics. $8,300 ticket. 6.3c/mile.
  • NBO-DOH-PER-CBR on QR/QF, mixed J/F ticket - 105k AA points. $14,600 ticket. 13.9c/mile
  • SYD-BNK in Y - 8k points, $320. 4c/mile
  • MEL-SYD in Y. 8k points $280. 4c/mile
Granted doesn’t include the cost of taxes & airport fees.

But aspirationally 4c/mile in Y and 10c/mile in J/F is possible.
But is that against other airlines and routes. Its a consideration whenever im redeeming (esp QF) where i consider the alternative airlines i would take (ZL or VA or even JQ at times for domestic). Where the redeeming carrier is a higher priced cash ticket so it looks like I'm getting good value but in reality I wouldn't have picked that route or those airlines if it wasn't for redemption.

It makes valuations of my flights a bit harder but a little bit more realistic in my valuations if there are other flights I'd consider.

An example is picking up a 8k qantas redemption for syd to mel last minute. The cheapest fare on the day would be $330 on QF but only $180 on ZL. I ended up still redeeming QF as I'm aware that I can regularly flow forward and thus ended up on a prime time flight but i didn't consider it a 3c + Y redemption. Against the ZL price it would have been 1.75c per point.
 
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Recent redemptions:
  • SYD-SIN-FCO on SQ, 3x J - 130k KrisFlyer points during the Olympics. $8,300 ticket. 6.3c/mile.
  • NBO-DOH-PER-CBR on QR/QF, mixed J/F ticket - 105k AA points. $14,600 ticket. 13.9c/mile
  • SYD-BNK in Y - 8k points, $320. 4c/mile
  • MEL-SYD in Y. 8k points $280. 4c/mile
Granted doesn’t include the cost of taxes & airport fees.

But aspirationally 4c/mile in Y and 10c/mile in J/F is possible.
That's some dodgy maths right there.

To pick just two of your examples:

For the SYD-FCO flight, you can get J class tickets on SQ one way for $6.7K for most days in July & August (ie 5c/pt). Make it a return ticket and it is just over $5K each way (ie 3.8c/pt).

For the MEL-SYD flight, once you take out taxes/fees, it is under 3c/pt.
 
My take is that over the next 5-10 years, we'll slowly see true "reward" flights disappear.
Yes, I think you are probably right, barring a nuclear war (which we can't discount).

10 years will probably see me out of the flying game (being of a certain age), so I'm quite happily burning my miles/points in various FF programs (such as UA, BA, VA and QF).

This credit card churning thing is certainly killing it (what paltry rewards do you actually get for paid flying?), and as a person of age I can't participate in this nonsense, but I can see what's happening (not quite senile).

So, my advice is to spend your points/miles on flights when you can (but don't compete with me!), as you may be left with useless points in your pocket.

FWIW, I've just burned most of my remaining MP miles on CBR (VA) - MEL (TG) - BKK (BR) - LHR, and SYD (TG) - BKK (TG) - IST (TK) - MAN, all in J.

Anyone who is hoarding points for a trip in the distant future may be disappointed (but who knows).
 
Is the deposit also refundable if you cancel?
Yes, but as I found out recently, the 20% deposit option has limitations. The booking can be refunded/cancelled, but it cannot be changed/modified until full payment is completed. I had to contact QF Hotels to complete the payment early so I could modify my booking.
 
Yes, but as I found out recently, the 20% deposit option has limitations. The booking can be refunded/cancelled, but it cannot be changed/modified until full payment is completed. I had to contact QF Hotels to complete the payment early so I could modify my booking.
Two questions if I may @bullerdude :
1. Can you just pay in full as before?
2. If you pay the 20% deposit, do they send reminder email for balance?
 
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Recent redemptions:
  • SYD-SIN-FCO on SQ, 3x J - 130k KrisFlyer points during the Olympics. $8,300 ticket. 6.3c/mile.
  • NBO-DOH-PER-CBR on QR/QF, mixed J/F ticket - 105k AA points. $14,600 ticket. 13.9c/mile
  • SYD-BNK in Y - 8k points, $320. 4c/mile
  • MEL-SYD in Y. 8k points $280. 4c/mile
Granted doesn’t include the cost of taxes & airport fees.

But aspirationally 4c/mile in Y and 10c/mile in J/F is possible.
Well sure, mixing fare classes and booking one way is driving up the cost for your calculations without providing any value once you’re on the plane.

For example, return fares cost only marginally more in dollar terms but double the points which trashes the values above. Also, the $14k First class fare from NBO to CBR, for a few grand extra you could buy a multi continent AONE fare travelling triple the distance in First Class. Instead you travel mostly in Business but have valued it at F due to the DOH-PER segment.
 
Well sure, mixing fare classes and booking one way is driving up the cost for your calculations without providing any value once you’re on the plane.

For example, return fares cost only marginally more in dollar terms but double the points which trashes the values above. Also, the $14k First class fare from NBO to CBR, for a few grand extra you could buy a multi continent AONE fare travelling triple the distance in First Class. Instead you travel mostly in Business but have valued it at F due to the DOH-PER segment.

Yes, I have been almost tempted to value OWAs by calculating the walk up fares of each one way flight without factoring in the availability of connections, return tix, RTW fares, etc. The reality is that redemptions sometimes let you do things that revenue fares would make prohibitive but they also bring their own restrictions.

I think the OP is also making a mistake of treating all program points as though they should be worth the same. In my eyes, a KF mile is clearly worth more than a QF or a VA point. Credit cards will often offer 2 KF points for every 3 VA points - and the exchange between the programs values them in a similar way (and yes, I know that there is a theoretical way to exchange 1.55 KF for 1 VA but I doubt anyone does that).
 
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Well I suppose we could say
There’s high fly value in a one way tic because to purchase it would cost 2/3 of the return tic

Yet most of us are not flying one way. We need get back to where we live which can only be done by flying the return leg somewhere somehow

Still not really been any discussion on what’s a fair return on our investment. How much do the AFFers believe we ought receive ?

Currently the scheme has become something of a dud as the lack of premium redemptions is driving people away - and I don’t think the new proposed rewards offer will do anything to “keep people earning”. You may as well shop around and just BFOD which won’t be with QF
 
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I think it's starting to look that way.

Quite a few people on here echoing my experience of less availability of classic rewards in any cabin in recent years.
Absolutely agree, particulary to/from Asia.
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I think it's starting to look that way.

Quite a few people on here echoing my experience of less availability of classic rewards in any cabin in recent years.
Absolutely agree, particulary to/from Asia.
Post automatically merged:

I think it's starting to look that way.

Quite a few people on here echoing my experience of less availability of classic rewards in any cabin in recent years.
Absolutely agree, particulary to/from Asia.
 
Well I suppose we could say
There’s high fly value in a one way tic because to purchase it would cost 2/3 of the return tic

Yet most of us are not flying one way. We need get back to where we live which can only be done by flying the return leg somewhere somehow

Still not really been any discussion on what’s a fair return on our investment. How much do the AFFers believe we ought receive ?

Currently the scheme has become something of a dud as the lack of premium redemptions is driving people away - and I don’t think the new proposed rewards offer will do anything to “keep people earning”. You may as well shop around and just BFOD which won’t be with QF
Interesting point on what we ought to receive on spend - if you're spending on CC's with flexible reward programs, you might get between 0.6-1.2c per $1 if redeeming for gift cards, (similar to QF ofc). And of course, transferring to airlines/hotels can get you more. But then you trade flexibility - what's the price of that?

Some food chain programs can be alot better than just gift cards - McDonald's loyalty program, allows you to get an 80c Vanilla soft serve for spending $20 (4% return). And the local coffee shop or barber shop offers of buy 10, get 1 free is effectively a 10% return.

Interestingly, since you get 800 QF points for flying SYD-BNE one-way in Economy on a cash fare - if you flew this 10 times, you have enough points for a CR on the same route. This means you're getting around 7% return on spend with Qantas, assuming that all fares are $159, and taxes are ~$40. Most people would be okay with that kind of return on spend, in percentage terms. Of course, this is a specific example that changes when there isn't classic reward availability, and Classic+ would not be nearly as good value, but also consider that the cost of acquiring points is generally a lot less than actually flying.

I still maintain though that despite their pretty ordinary treatment of customers (to put it lightly), Qantas and every other frequent flyer program doesn't and shouldn't promise you'll get Business or First Class flights when you want, where you want. Social media influencers, not the airline, sell this, and people buy it, because it's such an easy sell. All airlines do is say you can get rewards for your spending with us, which is completely true. An Economy Class flight from Sydney to Brisbane is still a reward, and still saves you money. But it's not aspirational, so people don't care if it's offered or not.
 
Looking on American forums where people often have access to lots of transferrable currencies (that transfer at very good rates, unlike most cards in Australia), you can find that people are getting the best value by transferring to foreign programs. I don't think it's a coincidence that these are programs in countries where it's relatively hard to get large sign-up bonuses (beyond ~30k points).
As an aside, I wonder how people in e.g. France think about Americans transferring in large amounts of miles from their Amex/Chase/whatever cards with 100k sign-up bonuses into a fresh Flying Blue account, whilst in France they can only get a 20k sign-up bonus for a card that costs 500€/yr or whatever.

Same applies for Singapore/Krisflyer, or Japan/ANA.
 
As an aside, I wonder how people in e.g. France think about Americans transferring in large amounts of miles from their Amex/Chase/whatever cards with 100k sign-up bonuses into a fresh Flying Blue account, whilst in France they can only get a 20k sign-up bonus for a card that costs 500€/yr or whatever.

Same applies for Singapore/Krisflyer, or Japan/ANA.
Probably the same as the Australians paying $20K for their Qantas First Class SYD-LAX flight sitting next to an American who paid 70K Alaska miles (pre devaluation). Or the Australians staying in a $300/night bog standard hotel in Sydney while the American is staying in a suite at the Park Hyatt for 40K points using the Globalist they got for free through credit card spend.

Most don't know, and the few that do are trying to get in on the racket.
 
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