China travel bans from Late 2022

[Mr H]

I personally think why we are doing these tests is not about race or culture... it is because we don't know the real figures of those who are really sick to the point in hospitals, ICU and deaths from China... not about politics as such... why we aren't testing America and UK despite they are having an outbreak now is because we know their waves wont cause severe illness that crash the hospital systems, ICU beds and extreme amount of deaths... the funeral homes in China right now is similar to Italy in early 2020 during the first wave!

We are doing the testing to appease an ignorant mob. It runs against medical advice and will achieve nothing. We (the Australian Government) does not need to know about what is happening in China - we are satisfied that they do not have any scary new variants and our own population is pretty much fully vaccinated. The virus is already alive and well in Australia and adding some more carriers from China will make no difference at all.

I’m not sure the CMO is considering the broader picture?
… or we simply ask incoming pax to fund their own test? And they can’t board if positive, which they shouldn’t be doing anyway!

This argument could be used for requiring a negative test before flights coming from anywhere. Or before boarding a train, tram or bus. But we had decided several months ago that we would no longer require all these negative tests - we would put the responsibility on individuals to protect themselves through vaccination.

I've heard medical experts, not the alarmist ones but others, who've said it's a reasonable position to take until there is more info available.

Source?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

This argument could be used for requiring a negative test before flights coming from anywhere. Or before boarding a train, tram or bus. But we had decided several months ago that we would no longer require all these negative tests - we would put the responsibility on individuals to protect themselves through vaccination.

We have seen from planes arriving from China that ou to 50% are testing positive with covid on arrival.

The argument that individuals will protect themselves… or think about the strain they may place on our health system… doesn’t seem to match with the idealism.

 

[Mr H]

We have seen from planes arriving from China that ou to 50% are testing positive with covid on arrival.

No we haven't. Despite repeated requests, nobody has been able to provide a source for that, and it is statistically highly improbable. And even if it were correct, it is a drop in the bucket compared to the existing prevalence of Covid in Australia. This is why scientists have not recommended this course of action and, it now seems have recommended specifically against it.

 

[tomlee1986]

We have seen from planes arriving from China that ou to 50% are testing positive with covid on arrival.

The argument that individuals will protect themselves… or think about the strain they may place on our health system… doesn’t seem to match with the idealism.

Even Belgium is testing waste water on flights from China to see what is happening

This is to see independently what variants are there… even they admit not all positive cases may use the toilet but just another tool to see what’s going on

Belgium to test wastewater on airliners from COVID-hit China

The new measure was “not meant to track people but to track independently what is happening in China”, said Steven Van Gucht of the Sciensano national public health institute.

www.theage.com.au

 

[Princess Fiona]

No we haven't. Despite repeated requests, nobody has been able to provide a source for that, and it is statistically highly improbable. And even if it were correct, it is a drop in the bucket compared to the existing prevalence of Covid in Australia. This is why scientists have not recommended this course of action and, it now seems have recommended specifically against it.

It’s Lombardy Health Authortities.
Aircraft into MXP
The Hill
Widely reported on Bloomberg etc

 

[Pushka]

Source?

Radio this morning. Sorry can't link

 

[Mr H]

It’s Lombardy Health Authortities.
Aircraft into MXP
The Hill
Widely reported on Bloomberg etc

Thank you.

As I have posted before, this is really not relevant anyway because people in Italy are highly vaccinated, but it is worth noting that the numbers are very small considering Italy has been reporting 20,000 new cases a day in recent weeks and that only one of the flights had 50% of pax testing positive.

Per NY Post - "on the first flight, 35 out of 92 passengers tested positive for the virus, while on the second, 62 passengers out of 120 were infected, according to Lombardy region’s health chief Guido Bertolaso".

Reading between the lines, these were the two flights that had high levels of infection - presumably other flights into Italy were not reported.

 

[Princess Fiona]

Thank you.

As I have posted before, this is really not relevant anyway because people in Italy are highly vaccinated, but it is worth noting that the numbers are very small considering Italy has been reporting 20,000 new cases a day in recent weeks and that only one of the flights had 50% of pax testing positive.

Per NY Post - "on the first flight, 35 out of 92 passengers tested positive for the virus, while on the second, 62 passengers out of 120 were infected, according to Lombardy region’s health chief Guido Bertolaso".

Reading between the lines, these were the two flights that had high levels of infection - presumably other flights into Italy were not reported.

I’m not sure what the testing regime was at MXP, whether or not testing all flights from China or just a random sample. Haven’t been able to find that info.

I’m not sure what the rationale is for imposing testing on arrivals from China.
I wondered if it’s because if we don’t and the US/UK/Europe are the Govt is worried about them imposing testing on Australian pax?
But even that seems a stretch.

Covid is absolutely everywhere right now where I work.
Most people are presenting with other things and we find out they have Covid.
The classic pneumonitis presentation is really very rare now except the occasional unvaccinated person.
I’m fairly sure any arrivals from China or anywhere else with Covid would be far outnumbered by locals with it.

 

[drron]

Here in Thailand the media have articles on how the Chinese will be welcomed back with open arms. So what happens if they do import huge numbers of Covid positive people?
Do we then insist on a negative test on all travellers from Thailand?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Thank you.

As I have posted before, this is really not relevant anyway because people in Italy are highly vaccinated, but it is worth noting that the numbers are very small considering Italy has been reporting 20,000 new cases a day in recent weeks and that only one of the flights had 50% of pax testing positive.

Per NY Post - "on the first flight, 35 out of 92 passengers tested positive for the virus, while on the second, 62 passengers out of 120 were infected, according to Lombardy region’s health chief Guido Bertolaso".

Reading between the lines, these were the two flights that had high levels of infection - presumably other flights into Italy were not reported.

By equal reasoning the figures aren’t relevant as passengers infected shouldn’t be travelling anyway.

Passengers can’t be complaining if they test positive and can’t fly. Most airlines have the same requirements stopping you from flying if you are infected.

 

[Mr H]

By equal reasoning the figures aren’t relevant as passengers infected shouldn’t be travelling anyway.

Passengers can’t be complaining if they test positive and can’t fly. Most airlines have the same requirements stopping you from flying if you are infected.

So why don't we introduce universal testing? Why have so many countries dropped the requirement for pre-departure negative tests? And why not test for other infectious diseases too?

The reality is that many of us now can and do go about normal life while Covid positive. Covid is an inconvenience, but it is no longer particularly deadly to a vaccinated population.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

So why don't we introduce universal testing? Why have so many countries dropped the requirement for pre-departure negative tests? And why not test for other infectious diseases too?

The reality is that many of us now can and do go about normal life while Covid positive. Covid is an inconvenience, but it is no longer particularly deadly to a vaccinated population.

The relevant minister has outlined the government’s reasoning, which is that it has been imposed as a precaution given the lack of information we have about the developing situation in China. We aren’t getting suffisent data or genomic sequencing at this stage. And even if we do, we don’t know yet how accurate it is.

The CMO has also recommended testing. But his ideas were at the taxpayers’ expense. I don’t think that’s necessary, as a matter of principle.

No one should be boarding a plane if they are infectious. So you can’t really complain if you were attempting to fly and your test is positive.

 

[Mr H]

The relevant minister has outlined the government’s reasoning, which is that it has been imposed as a precaution given the lack of information we have about the developing situation in China. We aren’t getting suffisent data or genomic sequencing at this stage. And even if we do, we don’t know yet how accurate it is.

The CMO has also recommended testing. But his ideas were at the taxpayers’ expense. I don’t think that’s necessary, as a matter of principle.

No one should be boarding a plane if they are infectious. So you can’t really complain if you were attempting to fly and your test is positive.

The CMO wanted to find out more about China's Covid by obtaining samples of waste water and studying it. If you prevent people who test positive from boarding you lose the opportunity to study anything.

The Government's reasoning doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I get the idea that it was because a whole bunch of people who think more with their hearts than their heads were calling for it. Mobocracy. IMO it is the first major misstep the new Government has made. The less on from Victoria has been that sticking to the medical advice will ultimately play well with the majority of the people.

 

[tomlee1986]

The relevant minister has outlined the government’s reasoning, which is that it has been imposed as a precaution given the lack of information we have about the developing situation in China. We aren’t getting suffisent data or genomic sequencing at this stage. And even if we do, we don’t know yet how accurate it is.

The CMO has also recommended testing. But his ideas were at the taxpayers’ expense. I don’t think that’s necessary, as a matter of principle.

No one should be boarding a plane if they are infectious. So you can’t really complain if you were attempting to fly and your test is positive.

https://www.health.gov.au/sites/default/files/2023-01/covid-19-advice-from-chief-medical-officer-professor-paul-kelly-to-minister-butler.pdf

This is the link of the advice from the Chief Medical officer in Australia, Professor Paul Kelly

 

[MEL_Traveller]

https://www.health.gov.au/sites/default/files/2023-01/covid-19-advice-from-chief-medical-officer-professor-paul-kelly-to-minister-butler.pdf

This is the link of the advice from the Chief Medical officer in Australia, Professor Paul Kelly

Indeed. And his thoughts are from a public health perspective. The government needs to consider the bigger picture, such as the cost to taxpayers and the impact on things such as the workforce here.

But, he still wants testing and monitoring. I don’t think we can rely on information coming out of China in regards to the dominant variant.

 

[tomlee1986]

Indeed. And his thoughts are from a public health perspective. The government needs to consider the bigger picture, such as the cost to taxpayers and the impact on things such as the workforce here.

But, he still wants testing and monitoring. I don’t think we can rely on information coming out of China in regards to the dominant variant.

The info from China is currently scratchy at best if not lied to at worst by the current Chinese government, therefore the testing is a good thing... we are not banning them but just to test them as an added layer of security to prevent those who are already positive at the time of boarding to prevent spread of the virus on the plane to others coming to Australia... No measure can eliminate this risk, but the reduction is possible...

 

[Mr H]

The info from China is currently scratchy at best if not lied to at worst by the current Chinese government, therefore the testing is a good thing... we are not banning them but just to test them as an added layer of security to prevent those who are already positive at the time of boarding to prevent spread of the virus on the plane to others coming to Australia... No measure can eliminate this risk, but the reduction is possible...

Your ground is shifting so much - the idea of protecting fellow pax is maybe the fifth reason you have put forward. It really looks like a solution in search of a problem.

 

[drron]

And in the CMO’s submission to the Government he did not recommend compulsory testing before travelling from China.
He also put the EU health body’s recommendation that compulsory pre travel testing is not required even though they are now in winter.
There is no scientific basis for our policy on China travel.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

And in the CMO’s submission to the Government he did not recommend compulsory testing before travelling from China.
He also put the EU health body’s recommendation that compulsory pre travel testing is not required even though they are now in winter.
There is no scientific basis for our policy on China travel.

Even if we set aside any scientific reasoning, there may be economic considerations. The government has to take an overarching view. And perhaps unfair for taxpayers to foot the bill for all the other measures proposed by the CMO.

It does rather come back to the primary issue… passengers travelling who are positive to covid. They shouldn’t really be flying.

 

[Mr H]

Even if we set aside any scientific reasoning, there may be economic considerations. The government has to take an overarching view. And perhaps unfair for taxpayers to foot the bill for all the other measures proposed by the CMO.

Those measures do not look expensive and a business case would be developed to introduce them - ie we would gain more value than we would be spending. The actions we are talking mean we would no longer have the opportunity to find out more about Covid in China while we get no compensatory benefit from the testing before departure.