The Pinot Noir & Grenache Thread

[juddles]

Ade, I love rice, coughin(very much so!) curry etc. I hear your suggestions and they make sense.

But I am seeking a wider thing - why pinot noir is so popular in aussie -what do the masses drink it with? What is a tyical "pairing between the wine and cuisine here?

Post automatically merged: Mar 2, 2020

Hey Juddles maybe re-post & check The Pinot Noir Thread

Will look that up - thanks

 

[sagittariusdrake]

Ade, I love rice, coughin(very much so!) curry etc. I hear your suggestions and they make sense.

But I am seeking a wider thing - why pinot noir is so popular in aussie -what do the masses drink it with? What is a tyical "pairing between the wine and cuisine here?

Post automatically merged: Mar 2, 2020

Will look that up - thanks

Tried to add link but phone/Optus/chrome conspired to re-load ads every time I scrolled or viewed another window.
I'll add my 2 cents worth over there rather than entangle this thread with my undoubtedly divisive/wrong/naive/etc opinions.
Spoiler alert Pinot is Mercurial.

 

[Daver6]

Maybe not a thread to ask questions, but at the moment am going through a period of very serious and prolific exploration of wines. I get where most fit, but what is the real niche of a pinot noir? - as I am not finding great enjoyment. I love my tempranillos, and grenache. Can someone advise a specific pinot noir that is a perfect yet average of the varietal?

But I am seeking a wider thing - why pinot noir is so popular in aussie -what do the masses drink it with? What is a tyical "pairing between the wine and cuisine here?

Avoid Pinot Noir. You don't want to get hooked on this stuff. It will empty your wallet. Great Pinot is ethereal. While there are some food Aussie and NZ offerings, it really comes together in Burgundy. Unfortunately quantities are tiny and this is reflect in the price.

As for food match. The absolute classic is duck and Pinot. Especially Peking duck. Pinot is a high acid, relatively low tannin wine. The high acid cuts through the fattiness of duck.

 

[TheRealTMA]

Maybe not a thread to ask questions, but at the moment am going through a period of very serious and prolific exploration of wines. I get where most fit, but what is the real niche of a pinot noir? - as I am not finding great enjoyment. I love my tempranillos, and grenache. Can someone advise a specific pinot noir that is a perfect yet average of the varietal?

Curley Flat
Yabbie lake (single vineyard)
Bindi
By Farr
Paringa Estate (estate or Single vineyard series)
nz: Pisa Range, Mount Edward, Dry River, Escarpment, Amisfield, Mt Difficulty, Felton Road
...

 

[JohnM]

Pinot Noir is certainly Holy Grail stuff.

Once you have a Pinot that has what I constantly refer to as the 'wow factor' - turbocharged, you just know that you have reached heaven on earth.

That extraordinary level is exceedingly rare, but on the infrequent occasion it happens, transcendental. It cannot - logically - be otherwise...

It's not just the wine, but your mood, situation, food, the weather, the sex to come or the sex that's been... whatever - it's the alignment of the stars, moon, comets...

 

[TheRealTMA]

Pinot Noir is certainly Holy Grail stuff.

Once you have a Pinot that has what I constantly refer to as the 'wow factor' - turbocharged, you just know that you have reached heaven on earth.

That extraordinary level is exceedingly rare, but on the infrequent occasion it happens, transcendental. It cannot - logically - be otherwise...

It's not just the wine, but your mood, situation, food, the weather, the sex to come or the sex that's been... whatever - it's the alignment of the stars, moon, comets...

Poetry Indeed!

 

[JohnM]

Poetry Indeed!

Good to see you back, mate...

 

[afro]

Maybe not a thread to ask questions, but at the moment am going through a period of very serious and prolific exploration of wines. I get where most fit, but what is the real niche of a pinot noir? - as I am not finding great enjoyment. I love my tempranillos, and grenache. Can someone advise a specific pinot noir that is a perfect yet average of the varietal?

pinot is one of those reds that you can really enjoy when they are young, you can try different regions at a cheap price point first.

yarra, mornington peninsula, adelaide hills, tassie, hunter valley and Margaret river, don't worry about the names for the time been but start trying one by one see which region hits you.

 

[Ade]

Ade, I love rice, coughin(very much so!) curry etc. I hear your suggestions and they make sense.

But I am seeking a wider thing - why pinot noir is so popular in aussie -what do the masses drink it with? What is a tyical "pairing between the wine and cuisine here?

Hello @juddles ,

IMHO, the story with PN is that - it's a easy, light, not-so-serious type red. I typically enjoy a PN when the mood is light, spending time with mates or catching up with someone after a few years - all these occassions for me need a PN to go with ... it's not heavy, but it's also fitting to get those taste buds going and getting ready for the next mouthful of food ...

As @JohnM noted, finding a PN that you like is a journey - it's an experience - one needs to spend some time with this wine and relate to it on various levels.

Personally, for me, I start to look at the color, tilt a glass bit and see the light that permeates through the wine - for me, a burgandy tint is a good hint that I'll be enjoying this wine.

I enjoy a PN lightly chilled, around 17-18 degrees C. If I have left the wine in the fridge for longer, I let it stay out for 20 mins before I open the bottle. Or I leave it in the decanter for 30 mins before serving ...

I had a similar encounter with Riesling - with pear notes, well chilled that the wine glass frosts on the outside

I'd like a glass right now, but alas, I'm at work

Once you have relished the PN, you might also, if you fancy a bit of fizz, try Shiraz-Riesling blend - amazing!

 

[Steady]

@juddles - maybe you should try to get along to something like one of the following to immerse yourself in Pinot and find out if it floats your boat

Pinot Palooza

The home of incredible Pinot Noir. Festivals at our heart. Wine delivered to your door.

www.pinotpalooza.com.au

Tasmanian Pinot Noir Showcase SAT July 25, 2020

SORRY SOLD OUT! To be placed on the WAITLIST please email [email protected] with your name, phone number and request for number of tickets up to max 3. We will be in touch if tickets become available. Pinot Shop's 13th Tasmanian Pinot Showcase is on Saturday July 25. BOOK NOW for one of the...

www.pinotshop.com

 

[juddles]

Thanks all for the various responses to my question - and I will go research the specific Pinot Noir thread as @sagittariusdrake suggested

Not knowing where to start, @JohnM 's poetry convinced me that it is an area worth exploring

As someone almost totally new to pinot noir, and seeking to start with something that is a good example of the varietal, I will grab a couple of the suggestions that @TheRealTMA suggested.

Again, my thanks to all.

Tonight I am enjoying one of the bottles of Epic Negociants Semaphore shiraz (2017) that finally arrived after a good bargain order done online ($14.50 per bottle, delivered) Have never been a huge shiraz drinker as this is something that is extremely aussie-focussed (can not think of any country that loves their "syrah" so profoundly as australia) and tend to always drink what is made in the country I am living in. But it is very enjoyable. I have a profound weakness in wine snobbery as my ability to discern or express specific aromas and tastes is inhibited by mental issues, but for fun I got my wife and daughters to smell it and comment. My wife instantly said "blackcurrants or dark berries", which I agree with. My 15 year old then said "but to me there is a hint of olives". This blew me away as when I looked up the professional reviews on the Dans site the review by Sam King includes "nuances of black olives". When I told her this she was proud, but then said, in her stern and assured way "it is Kalamata olives".

Such perception and ability to voice this is clearly not inherited from her father :/

 

[TheRealTMA]

Thanks all for the various responses to my question - and I will go research the specific Pinot Noir thread as @sagittariusdrake suggested

Not knowing where to start, @JohnM 's poetry convinced me that it is an area worth exploring

As someone almost totally new to pinot noir, and seeking to start with something that is a good example of the varietal, I will grab a couple of the suggestions that @TheRealTMA suggested.

Again, my thanks to all.

Tonight I am enjoying one of the bottles of Epic Negociants Semaphore shiraz (2017) that finally arrived after a good bargain order done online ($14.50 per bottle, delivered) Have never been a huge shiraz drinker as this is something that is extremely aussie-focussed (can not think of any country that loves their "syrah" so profoundly as australia) and tend to always drink what is made in the country I am living in. But it is very enjoyable. I have a profound weakness in wine snobbery as my ability to discern or express specific aromas and tastes is inhibited by mental issues, but for fun I got my wife and daughters to smell it and comment. My wife instantly said "blackcurrants or dark berries", which I agree with. My 15 year old then said "but to me there is a hint of olives". This blew me away as when I looked up the professional reviews on the Dans site the review by Sam King includes "nuances of black olives". When I told her this she was proud, but then said, in her stern and assured way "it is Kalamata olives".

Such perception and ability to voice this is clearly not inherited from her father :/

Just remember (or read up on it) that Pinot vines are difficult beasts and there are many different clones that are used depending on which suit the local soils and climate. When starting your Pinot journey, see if you can check out what clones are used in particular wines and the characteristics they give the finished wine. Many wines are a mix of clones and there are also many single vineyard wines (not necessarily the same clone btw) that give you a better handle on the ”terroir” and the wine maker.

Start with good Australian producers before being tempted to Central Otago or France.

for example Macedon Ranges wines from Bindi and Curley Flat (one of my favourites) tend to use MV6 clones while Victorians such as Yabby Lake use Dijon clones etc. See

https://www.yabbylake.com/assets/client/File/YL%20Block%20map%20updated0113.pdf

this is a good pack to try with friends over dinner Or Sunday, just to see the differences and what your palate appreciates.

Yabby Lake Pinot Noir Clone Discovery Pack

The rewarding way for Qantas Frequent Flyers to enjoy award winning wines from our cellar in the sky. Qantas Wine invites you to experience premium food and wine, earn Qantas Points with every sip and meet with the producers and winemakers at our exclusive events.

wine.qantas.com

Enjoy the journey! We’ll make you a convert yet then I’m sure you’ll be off a week in Central Otago!

 

[juddles]

.....
Enjoy the journey! We’ll make you a convert yet then I’m sure you’ll be off a week in Central Otago!

Thank you TMA, but being converted is something I dread - it appears my enjoyment of wines in this period of study will very quickly exceed my budget - will have to work a few days a week to make ends meet

 

[TheRealTMA]

Thank you TMA, but being converted is something I dread - it appears my enjoyment of wines in this period of study will very quickly exceed my budget - will have to work a few days a week to make ends meet

Yes unfortunately. Don’t even bother with cheap Pinots. Curly Flat Pinot, as an example, is around $50 and that’s really a baseline. Yabby Lake about the same but Paringa Estate sell a cheaper variety although IMHO not worth it compared with the fabulous Estate bottlings.

We wait to see the results of our seduction...

 

[TheRealTMA]

Tielec,

Arrived this morning. Will let rest for a week and try. Looking fwd.

 

[JohnM]

Hey, @juddles, next time you go back to Chile, and now that you've softened them up, seek prior approval from SWMBO and the girls for an extra week to do a little Pinot Noir research mission over those little hills called the Andes into Argy.

Slip south 100 or so clicks from Mendoza to the Valle de Uco and visit Salentein:
- Pinot Noir :: Bodegas Salentein

Then head over to Neuquen for another extraordinary experience of Pinot Noir from probably the most southerly vineyards in South America (although still 6deg. N of Central Otago):

Saurus Select Pinot Noir | Bodega Familia Schroeder

www.familiaschroeder.com

bodegadelfindelmundo.com

bodegadelfindelmundo.com

Not only are the Pinots exceptional (as well as the rest of their offerings), the wineries are amazing - and it would rock your Latinesque soul to fit with the poetry outlined above, I'm sure.

But... even better: take the family now that they are hot on wine.

Tell 'em Uncle John said it would be good for all.

 

[juddles]

Hey, @juddles, next time you go back to Chile, and now that you've softened them up, seek prior approval from SWMBO and the girls for an extra week to do a little Pinot Noir research mission over those little hills called the Andes into Argy.

Slip south 100 or so clicks from Mendoza to the Valle de Uco and visit Salentein:
- Pinot Noir :: Bodegas Salentein

Then head over to Neuquen for another extraordinary experience of Pinot Noir from probably the most southerly vineyards in South America (although still 6deg. N of Central Otago):

Saurus Select Pinot Noir | Bodega Familia Schroeder

www.familiaschroeder.com

bodegadelfindelmundo.com

bodegadelfindelmundo.com

Not only are the Pinots exceptional (as well as the rest of their offerings), the wineries are amazing - and it would rock your Latinesque soul to fit with the poetry outlined above, I'm sure.

But... even better: take the family now that they are hot on wine.

Tell 'em Uncle John said it would be good for all.

The family are in no mood to travel anywhere at the moment - will be many months until this whole Corona thing gets accepted as the new normal.

But it is not a bad idea - actually a really good one. The girls have only been to Argentina on short stop-overs, and they would be much more interested in going there than Colombia

As for Valle de Uco, if I went there (which I have actually never done) I would most likely get distracted by my ancient and devout love of malbec......

But I will keep the card of "Uncle John says" up my sleeve, as I think your advice holds far more sway with them than my own

 

[JohnM]

As for Valle de Uco, if I went there (which I have actually never done) I would most likely get distracted by my ancient and devout love of malbec......

Got you covered there, mate: Mendoza: Malbec magic - but don’t ignore the Pinot!

 

[mouseman99]

I was kinda the same recently with Pinot. I could take it or leave it. I never seen what everyone else did in it.
That was until I actually tried good pinot. I would normally have Pinot around the $20-$25 mark. It was ok but not great.
I went to a Pinot tasting night and I got to try around 10 Pinots ranging from $30 to $130. This is some of what I tried that night.
Stefano Lubiana
Carmel Road
De Bortoli Phi
Gembrook Hill
Burn Cottage
Hugues Pavelot
Craggy Range Aroha
Domaine Taupenot

As the night went on each one got better and better. As a few people have mentioned you really need to spend some $$ to get the full Pinot experience. Most people however cant afford to spend $40+ a bottle however. I have found that you can still get a decent drop however between $25-$30 (I like Paringa, Bream Creek, Dalrymple)
Dont give up. Its all worth it. Good luck

 

[redbigot]

... it really comes together in Burgundy. Unfortunately quantities are tiny and this is reflect in the price.

The amount of red wine produced in Burgundy each year is approximately 42 million litres. Total French wine production was around 27,000 million litres
The total amount of red wine produced in Australia 2017/2018 was roughly 669 million litres, total wine production 1,290 million litres.

There is plenty of cheap Burgundy, and plenty of good affordable Burgundy (at least outside of Australia's punitive taxation area), the price of the top wines is due to the same reason for expensive wine everywhere - it is perceived as being at the pinnacle of quality and the wines are that level are indeed mostly small production, trophy wines for the rich.

Like many luxury goods, the wine price / quality graph is exponential, once you get past the basic levels, there is often a large increase in price for a small increment in quality.