QF to Haneda

[Himeno]

Unfortunately transiting in SYD is so inconvenient as it requires you to pick up your luggage and change terminal and then drop off your bags again!

Transiting via SYD to QF21 only requires collecting bags and making your own way to T1 if you book a non QF flight on a different ticket.
QF549, QF551 or QF553 will all get you to SYD in time to get the QF transfer bus between T3 and T1 in time to connect to QF21 without having to collect bags and recheck.

 

[anat0l]

You are not the only one complaining about that. I heard it from others too who choose to fly JL to NRT for that reason although their hard product is currently inferior (at least in J).
It will only get worse for QF when JL starts flying their refurbished B777s with better J product and an addition of F cabin (at least until QF swaps to the refurbished A330s).

Swings and roundabouts IMO. If you have a day flight to Tokyo, and take JL's for example, if your end point is Tokyo then from Narita you'll arrive in Tokyo city rather late, even if you take the NEX. From Haneda, the effect is lesser in this regard, for sure. Or, of course, you could just overnight in a Narita hotel before heading to Tokyo the next day (and Narita area hotels are known for being very affordable at almost any time of year).

On top of that, if your terminal point of the journey is Tokyo (i.e. you are a bona fide going to Tokyo), then that's mostly fine. For connecting from NRT the options thin out near the end of the day, particularly for international connections. For example, plenty of JL's Japan-Europe connections leave in the afternoon after the JL flight from SYD arrives in NRT. I believe the connections to USA are in the evening and thus this is possible to connect from the ex-SYD flight, though it might be tight anyway. Arriving in the morning like QF21 does allows more connections, though in some cases at the expense of needing to wait a long time (admittedly).

There is no way that anyone in Brisbane can fly down in time to meet the JL flight from SYD. The earliest flights do not give enough connection time (45 minutes at best, which is an illegal connection in SYD). A Brisbane pax would need to overnight to make it. I realise that hardly anyone gives half a stuff about Brisbane, but so there. And yes, there's also better product on JL (new product coming up, including seasonal F product) and there is F lounge in SYD.

If they timed a day flight ex-BNE to HND, at least it'd likely be possible that MEL and SYD pax can fly to connect to it (viz. first flight of the day).

Finally, if you can't sleep on planes - period - then that is that. Your choice is either fixed any way or you need to either accept a much longer schedule or work around it anyway.

 

[VAG newbie]

Sorry, I meant the other way. When you fly back from Japan, you need to clear custom so the need to collect luggage.

 

[Himeno]

Sorry, I meant the other way. When you fly back from Japan, you need to clear custom so the need to collect luggage.

and that is an "issue" with any international arrival connecting to any domestic flight, not just TYO-SYD-BNE. and again, QF has a bag drop, recheck and airside transfer bus back to SYD T3. You don't need to make your own way to T2/T3 if you're connecting between EK, QF, JQ or oneworld flights to a QF flight.

 

[VAG newbie]

and that is an "issue" with any international arrival connecting to any domestic flight, not just TYO-SYD-BNE. and again, QF has a bag drop, recheck and airside transfer bus back to SYD T3. You don't need to make your own way to T2/T3 if you're connecting between EK, QF, JQ or oneworld flights to a QF flight.

Yes. But with SQ/CX or any other international transfer you won't have that issue. I'm not saying this is unique to QF or QF's fault. I agree all international to domestic would have this issue. All I'm saying is that transiting in SYD is not as convenient and seamless as transiting in an international port and that's why people may choose to fly others over QF simply because of this little bit of inconvenience. For a young family like me with 2 young boys that always need to travel with over 50kgs of luggage, the less I need to collect/drop the better. Same reason why many people would prefer to transit in YVR over LAX when traveling to other US cities without direct flight.

It was also why QF8 was very popular among Brisbanites when it serviced BNE-SYD internationally. But since QF dropped the stopover we got no choice.

 

[VAG newbie]

There is no way that anyone in Brisbane can fly down in time to meet the JL flight from SYD. The earliest flights do not give enough connection time (45 minutes at best, which is an illegal connection in SYD). A Brisbane pax would need to overnight to make it. I realise that hardly anyone gives half a stuff about Brisbane, but so there. And yes, there's also better product on JL (new product coming up, including seasonal F product) and there is F lounge in SYD.

If they timed a day flight ex-BNE to HND, at least it'd likely be possible that MEL and SYD pax can fly to connect to it (viz. first flight of the day).

You must be from Brisbane! Only a Brisbanite can understand the pain, frustration and hassle trying to go to Japan from Brisbane ever since JL ditched BNE.

My wife is Japanese. Her family is still in Japan. My sister married a Japanese and is living in Japan. Her 12 year old daughter is studying in Brisbane that needs to go back to Japan frequently to be with her family. They have many Japanese friends all living in Brisbane. It is a real pain that there is no direct flight to Japan ex-BNE!!!

You are exactly right. I am flying JL next Feb and I have to spent the night in Syd. Even that, the latest flight I can take departing BNE on the Fri afternoon leaves at 19:20 because of the time difference SYD and BNE, and the curfew in SYD so you can't fly in late. If there is a delay (which happens very often with the last flight of the day) and we don't meet the curfew, the flight is cancelled!

I can't take any earlier flight because of my work. Even leaving at 19:20 I have to be at airport by 18:30, which means I have to leave work at 17:30 assuming the traffic is not too bad. It's all cutting really tight, yet the earliest I get to arrive Tokyo would be about 9pm on Sat! I waste a whole day to be with my family!

I can't take QF21 on Fri as the latest I need to leave BNE has to be 18:25, I just can't make it to airport by 17:30.

Many people in SYD would complain that NRT is too far and this should be SYD-HND, and many people in MEL would complain that MEL deserves QF not JQ. But think about how inconvenient your fellow residents in BNE/PER/ADL, then you know how lucky you are! That's why I said, even if it's JQ 3x/wk BNE-NRT, many of us will be super grateful at Qantas.

 

[anat0l]

You must be from Brisbane! Only a Brisbanite can understand the pain, frustration and hassle trying to go to Japan from Brisbane ever since JL ditched BNE.

Spot on.

We can blame DST and all that, but that's for all another thread... which opens another related but off-topic can of worms (i.e. QLD versus the other East coast states).

Mind you, even without DST, they don't have 0500h flights going to SYD and MEL anyway (they shift them back up by an hour to 0600h). So, still stuffed.

Many people in SYD would complain that NRT is too far

Let's not forget that HND really just recently opened up for further afield international traffic. HND was basically Japan domestic plus the heaviest trunk routes around North Asia for a long time.

NRT was pretty much the only choice for traffic to Tokyo for a long time.


What would be the economic argument for or against something like MEL-BNE-HND (international to international), similar to the old QF81 SYD-ADL-SIN? Put aside the novelty factor and another QFi domestic flight (the peanut gallery for F lounge running - shaddup!)...

 

[Himeno]

CBR also has issues connecting to the morning JL flight. A same day connection is only possible during daylight saving. i try to avoid connecting in SYD whenever possible. Given my experience with BNE last year, that's just as bad as SYD. I prefer MEL as my Australian gateway port.

As has been mentioned before, JL is also rumored to be resuming a 2nd Australia route soon. I'm expecting to see a JL SYD-TYO with SS7 and BNE-TYO with SS8 and QF MEL/SYD-TYO with A330s with the JL/QF codeshares via SIN continuing and BNE/MEL-TYO routes codeshared.

 

[anat0l]

Here's a $32,000 question: what's the dynamics of the upswing in the Japan market which might pay for all this new traffic?

At one point, Japan-Australia flights were decimated in accordance with a plummet in the demand, perhaps from too many Japanese tourists getting tired of Australia, it being too expensive or excessive attempts to rip them off. (The last half-sentence was made somewhat in jest...)

 

[Himeno]

Here's a $32,000 question: what's the dynamics of the upswing in the Japan market which might pay for all this new traffic?

Who knows. After a drop in demand from 2007 to 2012 with flights being cut and the 2011 earthquake and related, demand has recovered over the last 2 years. Almost every SYD-NRT flight on both QF and JL that I've taken or otherwise looked at has been nearly full or over booked. My last few QF NRT flights have had op ups to to over booking in Y.
There is also the new free trade agreement that could increase demand again.

Even with the 5 AU-JP JQ routes and a possible 4 QF/JL routes, it still wouldn't be up to the amount of flights there were in 99/00 when AN, JL and QF had multiple flights between 5 Australian cities (SYD, MEL, PER, BNE, CNS) and 4 Japanese (NRT, KIX, NGO, CTS).

 

[drron]

We loved the JL BNE-NRT flight.Though before it was axed it was switched to a 763 because of falling demand and was not always full.I think we last flew the route about a week before it was axed.
You could make connections-we flew on to JFK and always made the connection.A little like HKG where if the BNE flight was delayed you were met and taken to the front of the transfer security line.
And there is public transport from BNE-Gold Coast.It is called a train.

 

[VAG newbie]

We loved the JL BNE-NRT flight.Though before it was axed it was switched to a 763 because of falling demand and was not always full.I think we last flew the route about a week before it was axed.
You could make connections-we flew on to JFK and always made the connection.A little like HKG where if the BNE flight was delayed you were met and taken to the front of the transfer security line.
And there is public transport from BNE-Gold Coast.It is called a train.

Yes, I'm aware of the "train". But it's ridiculous! It will take you to Robina station and a chauffeur has to take you to the airport and the service is only available one way due to license restriction!

Brisbane's Airtrain - Gold Coast Airport

So on your return flight from NRT-OOL, if you have no one to pick you up, or if you arrive on the day where there is no shuttle service (eg. Mon), what are you gonna do? Taxi will be the only way, or some other private airport pick up service which costs $100 oneway.

What kind of public transport is that if it only provides one way service? Imagine if Tokyo to NRT is only one way, no one will fly to NRT.

 

[markis10]

Yes, I'm aware of the "train". But it's ridiculous! It will take you to Robina station and a chauffeur has to take you to the airport and the service is only available one way due to license restriction!

Brisbane's Airtrain - Gold Coast Airport

So on your return flight from NRT-OOL, if you have no one to pick you up, or if you arrive on the day where there is no shuttle service (eg. Mon), what are you gonna do? Taxi will be the only way, or some other private airport pick up service which costs $100 oneway.

What kind of public transport is that if it only provides one way service? Imagine if Tokyo to NRT is only one way, no one will fly to NRT.

Thats the airtrain service, not the public service which is a train and bus transfer. I have take it a number of times, it's cheap and easy but time consuming, and obviously both ways.

go card adult fare: $16.28
2 hrs 1 min | total walk 102m | 1 transfer
9.59am - 11.22am
Catch train BDVL Airport via Brisbane to Varsity Lakes - Gold Coast to Varsity Lakes station, platform 2, Varsity Lakes
Minor disruptions More info & times
11.22am - 11.24am
Walk 102m to Varsity Lakes station, Varsity Lakes
11.29am - 12.00pm
Catch bus 760 Robina Town Centre, Varsity Lakes, The Pines, Airport, Tweed to Gold Coast Airport, Bilinga




This is a 18 zone journey, travelling in zones 1 - 18.
Fare information for the travel option currently displayed.
Ticket type Price
go card adult $16.28
$13.02 (off-peak)
go card concession $8.14
$6.51 (off-peak)
Single paper adult $23.60
Single paper concession $11.80
A taxi service may be available for your journey.

 

[VAG newbie]

Thats the airtrain service, not the public service which is a train and bus transfer. I have take it a number of times, it's cheap and easy but time consuming, and obviously both ways.

go card adult fare: $16.28
2 hrs 1 min | total walk 102m | 1 transfer
9.59am - 11.22am
Catch train BDVL Airport via Brisbane to Varsity Lakes - Gold Coast to Varsity Lakes station, platform 2, Varsity Lakes
Minor disruptions More info & times
11.22am - 11.24am
Walk 102m to Varsity Lakes station, Varsity Lakes
11.29am - 12.00pm
Catch bus 760 Robina Town Centre, Varsity Lakes, The Pines, Airport, Tweed to Gold Coast Airport, Bilinga




This is a 18 zone journey, travelling in zones 1 - 18.
Fare information for the travel option currently displayed.
Ticket type Price
go card adult $16.28
$13.02 (off-peak)
go card concession $8.14
$6.51 (off-peak)
Single paper adult $23.60
Single paper concession $11.80
A taxi service may be available for your journey.

Thanks for the info. I wasn't aware of that as google usually directs you to airtrain.

I guess it really suits people on a tight budget and traveling alone with little luggage, and got lots of time, whom LCC is targeting.

 

[Gold Member]

Am I the only one smirking at VAG Newbie's name? Don't suppose he or she (?? ;-) ) flies Virgin???

 

[VAG newbie]

Am I the only one smirking at VAG Newbie's name? Don't suppose he or she (?? ;-) ) flies Virgin???

I've already explained in another thread. The VAG has nothing to do with Virgin Group. It's from my user name in another discussion forum on Volkswagen groups. VAG is from German word Volkswagen Aktiengesellschaft which means Volkswagen Auto Group. I used the name when i first ventured into German cars.

I know I made a lot of posts that are quite pro-Virgin. It is because I recently started to discover the value in velocity point, which I previously thought was useless. Also by coincidence Virgin (and its partner Etihad) just happened to make some changes that benefits Brisbane a lot, so I am speaking very highly of Virgin.

In general I fly Qantas a lot more than VA because I am a Qantas club member. My SC with VA is only 60, and that's with family pooling.

Sorry to go off topic.

 

[Himeno]

Am I the only one smirking at VAG Newbie's name? Don't suppose he or she (?? ;-) ) flies Virgin???

If that was the case, why wouldn't they just go to Tokyo (either airport) on SQ?

 

[Gold Member]

Hmmm, seems my comment went straight through to the Keeper. Nevermind... *lifts dirty mind out of gutter*

 

[Aussie_flyer]

Hmmm, seems my comment went straight through to the Keeper. Nevermind... *lifts dirty mind out of gutter*

Lol i hear you

 

[eosphoros]

To be honest I really do not care where the HND flight originates from (so long as it is on the East Coast). Transitting in Australia would be much less of a hassle than flying into NRT in the wee hours of the morning.

That said, I think that SYD or MEL makes the best sense given that HND is much more convenient for business trips and that a larger portion of those going to and from BNE are part of the leisure market.