Award Booking Insurance Questions / Discussion

[whole-lotta-moxie]

To the wise heads here,

I've booked 2 J flights via USDM for end of April which is looking tenuous as my wife's health is not well at the moment. Can someone quickly give me a run down of my options incl 1) how late can I change or cancel my flights 2) best to change flights to another time (although this would still be a bit uncertain) or get the the points re-credited and book when I'm more certain 3) general fees (ball park) associated with either options.

I've had a read of this thread and on the USDM website but it's a little bit unclear. Also, more pressing concerns (her health) clouding my concentration perhaps.

Thanks in advance.

Hello all I have a question along the same lines re: health/illness

What are the rules if you have to get back to oz due to sickness back in oz and your journey has already started?
Would us allow you to change flights if there were any seats which will probably not be the case?
Would your travel insurance cover this being that they are ff seats? If so would the travel also be in first/bus class?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Re: US Dividend Miles - Award Booking Questions and General Discussion

Hello all I have a question along the same lines re: health/illness

What are the rules if you have to get back to oz due to sickness back in oz and your journey has already started?
Would us allow you to change flights if there were any seats which will probably not be the case?
Would your travel insurance cover this being that they are ff seats? If so would the travel also be in first/bus class?

USDM does not allow voluntary changes to an itinerary once travel has commenced. I am only aware of two exceptions to this rule in the last 6 or so years (where the passenger was seriously ill in hospital).

So, you have to assume USDM will not allow changes, and it will be up to your insurance and how it handles it.

Some policies will pay out the lost points, calculated at the number of points against the applicable class of travel... so for example, if you were half way through a QF F return to Europe, you would get back 75,000/150,000 x $12,000 (or whatever it is) for the regular QF F fare. That $6000 you'd get back to use for your return journey home.

Other companies have different policies and/or provisions to repatriate you. You'd need to check the details before you purchase your policy.

 

[whole-lotta-moxie]

Re: US Dividend Miles - Award Booking Questions and General Discussion

USDM does not allow voluntary changes to an itinerary once travel has commenced. I am only aware of two exceptions to this rule in the last 6 or so years (where the passenger was seriously ill in hospital).

So, you have to assume USDM will not allow changes, and it will be up to your insurance and how it handles it.

Some policies will pay out the lost points, calculated at the number of points against the applicable class of travel... so for example, if you were half way through a QF F return to Europe, you would get back 75,000/150,000 x $12,000 (or whatever it is) for the regular QF F fare. That $6000 you'd get back to use for your return journey home.

Other companies have different policies and/or provisions to repatriate you. You'd need to check the details before you purchase your policy.

Just a quick update. I checked with my particular insurance company and they will only refund the cost of the points. They will not refund like for like. So that means they will only refund the cost of the unused points and not the cost to get similar first/bus class seats to get back to oz or the cost of getting any tix back.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Re: US Dividend Miles - Award Booking Questions and General Discussion

Just a quick update. I checked with my particular insurance company and they will only refund the cost of the points. They will not refund like for like. So that means they will only refund the cost of the unused points and not the cost to get similar first/bus class seats to get back to oz or the cost of getting any tix back.

how do they value the points? that's the main issue. if they value the points based on the airfare purchased, you should get enough money to return home in the original class of travel.

does your insurance company pay to return you home anyway for a defined event such as illness of a family member?

if it's too late now, perhaps you can change policies for your next trip.

note under AA, awards are sold one way, and changes are completely free of charge provided origin and destination stay the same.

 

[whole-lotta-moxie]

US Dividend Miles - Award Booking Questions and General Discussion

how do they value the points? that's the main issue. if they value the points based on the airfare purchased, you should get enough money to return home in the original class of travel.

does your insurance company pay to return you home anyway for a defined event such as illness of a family member?

if it's too late now, perhaps you can change policies for your next trip.

note under AA, awards are sold one way, and changes are completely free of charge provided origin and destination stay the same.

This is the case of family illness/ death back in oz. the other issue is if it's a pre-exiting illness and it hasn't been quoted in the application u will b denied all assistance.

They value it only on the cost of the points at the time of purchase. They will not get you a return ticket home. all they will do is give u the cash that u spent on getting the points.
Eg points cost to get to Europe $3000 aud for bus class seats
They will give u $1500 to return home (half already used )
it doesn't matter if I can't even get an Y seat for that due to last minute high prices all I would b able to claim is the $1500.

 

[travelislife]

Re: US Dividend Miles - Award Booking Questions and General Discussion

This is the case of family illness/ death back in oz. the other issue is if it's a pre-exiting illness and it hasn't been quoted in the application u will b denied all assistance.

They value it only on the cost of the points at the time of purchase. They will not get you a return ticket home. all they will do is give u the cash that u spent on getting the points.
Eg points cost to get to Europe $3000 aud for bus class seats
They will give u $1500 to return home (half already used )
it doesn't matter if I can't even get an Y seat for that due to last minute high prices all I would b able to claim is the $1500.

What MEL_Traveller is asking though is how do they price the points? What if you acquired all the points through credit card spend? Your cost might be $0. They usually have a defined cost per point based on a commercially available fare like what MEL_Traveller has outlined.

 

[casanovawa]

Re: US Dividend Miles - Award Booking Questions and General Discussion

Just a quick update. I checked with my particular insurance company and they will only refund the cost of the points. They will not refund like for like. So that means they will only refund the cost of the unused points and not the cost to get similar first/bus class seats to get back to oz or the cost of getting any tix back.

WLM, I was on a USDM redemtpion back in 2013 and had been to Europe and then landed in LAX and found my brother had died of a heart attack... I asked US if I could change the redemption but they said no, so after calling my insurance company I bought a QF flight back to Oz... The USDM fare was in J and the operator from QBE (agent for the complimentary ANZ travel insurance provided with my cc) said I could book the same class of travel back, but i though better to play it safe and fly back in Y rather than shell out $000s for J and then have some argument later that meant I wouldn't get fully reimbursed...

Anyway, after i got back and had the funeral and all it was a bit of a long drawn out rigamarole getting letters from his doctors and all, and then more rigamarole getting them to pay out on a USDM redemtpion, but I eventually convinced the insurance assessor lady to pay me around $4000 for my claim (110,000 miles x US 0.35c (converted to A$) plus a fee for buying points etc... After going through the cost thing multiple times, she eventually got the basis of the calculation she paid out wrong, but it amounted to about the same amount so i just left it... So that was all I got, about A$4,300 rather than the price of the ticket i paid to get back plus money that i paid for my USD miles...

I think she said QBE would have given me QF points back if it had been a Qantas redemption, but because it was with US Airways we had to find another way to go about it which ended up being a cash payments for the full cost of a new redemtpion...

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Re: US Dividend Miles - Award Booking Questions and General Discussion

Eg points cost to get to Europe $3000 aud for bus class seats
They will give u $1500 to return home (half already used )
it doesn't matter if I can't even get an Y seat for that due to last minute high prices all I would b able to claim is the $1500.

What MEL_Traveller is asking though is how do they price the points? What if you acquired all the points through credit card spend? Your cost might be $0. They usually have a defined cost per point based on a commercially available fare like what MEL_Traveller has outlined.

I think the policy is quite restrictive, and perhaps worth shopping around for future insurance needs.

However - if it is pre-existing, and there's not going to be any cover anyway, better to select a different FF program to start with. Qantas will charge 5000 points cancellation for example, and refund the rest of the points. AA will allow free changes (and so on).

 

[whole-lotta-moxie]

Re: US Dividend Miles - Award Booking Questions and General Discussion

What MEL_Traveller is asking though is how do they price the points? What if you acquired all the points through credit card spend? Your cost might be $0. They usually have a defined cost per point based on a commercially available fare like what MEL_Traveller has outlined.

Oh yes sorry I missed that point. I'm not a 100 % certain on that. I asked specifically about points purchased only. This stumped them. It took them numerous calls to their specialists to work out. I didn't ask about point gained via other means.

 

[whole-lotta-moxie]

Re: US Dividend Miles - Award Booking Questions and General Discussion

WLM, I was on a USDM redemtpion back in 2013 and had been to Europe and then landed in LAX and found my brother had died of a heart attack... I asked US if I could change the redemption but they said no, so after calling my insurance company I bought a QF flight back to Oz... The USDM fare was in J and the operator from QBE (agent for the complimentary ANZ travel insurance provided with my cc) said I could book the same class of travel back, but i though better to play it safe and fly back in Y rather than shell out $000s for J and then have some argument later that meant I wouldn't get fully reimbursed...

Anyway, after i got back and had the funeral and all it was a bit of a long drawn out rigamarole getting letters from his doctors and all, and then more rigamarole getting them to pay out on a USDM redemtpion, but I eventually convinced the insurance assessor lady to pay me around $4000 for my claim (110,000 miles x US 0.35c (converted to A$) plus a fee for buying points etc... After going through the cost thing multiple times, she eventually got the basis of the calculation she paid out wrong, but it amounted to about the same amount so i just left it... So that was all I got, about A$4,300 rather than the price of the ticket i paid to get back plus money that i paid for my USD miles...

I think she said QBE would have given me QF points back if it had been a Qantas redemption, but because it was with US Airways we had to find another way to go about it which ended up being a cash payments for the full cost of a new redemtpion...

Interesting that u quoted that it was QBE. This is the company that I called and got a completely different response from what actually happened in your circumstances

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Re: US Dividend Miles - Award Booking Questions and General Discussion

... the operator from QBE (agent for the complimentary ANZ travel insurance provided with my cc) said I could book the same class of travel back, but i though better to play it safe and fly back in Y rather than shell out $000s for J

indeed. I have the same through ANZ and had their policy in mind when discussing the above. There are some other companies that base their refund on the same calculations... which is generous.

(re QBE giving a refund of QF points for a QF redemption... I suppose QBE as a partner has some sort of agreement with QF to buy the required points cheaply and refund them?)

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Re: US Dividend Miles - Award Booking Questions and General Discussion

Interesting that u quoted that it was QBE. This is the company that I called and got a completely different response from what actually happened in your circumstances

I think it depends on which policy you hold with them. Different policies, through different sellers, will have different conditions.

Actually - just checking the general QBE policy it does seem to cover the cost of lost points in the same pro-rate way against the cost of a standard airfare... regardless of the class of travel (my bolding):

Section 4C:LOSS OF REWARD POINTS(Cover not available on Australian Cancellation And Additional Expensesor New Zealand Cancellation And Additional Expenses Travel Plans.)We will pay for frequent flyer or similar flight reward points lost dueto the cancellation of your airline ticket. The amount we will payis calculated as follows:(a) the cost of the equivalent class airline ticket, based on the bestavailable advance purchase airfare at the time of cancellation, lessyour financial contribution towards the airline ticket multiplied by(b) the total amount of points lost divided by(c) the total amount of points redeemed to obtain the airline ticket.We will not provide cover if the loss of such points or their value canbe recovered from any other source.

 

[get me outta here]

Re: US Dividend Miles - Award Booking Questions and General Discussion

I have just bought a policy direct from Allianz 20% off (code: vacation). Here's what the policy says re ff points flights cancellations:

We will pay you for loss of frequent flyer or similar air travelpoints you used to purchase an airline ticket followingcancellation of your air ticket, if you cannot recover the lostpoints from any other source. The cancellation must bedue to unforeseen circumstances outside of your control.We calculate the amount we pay you by multiplying:• The cost of an equivalent class airline ticket based on thequoted retail price at the time the ticket was issued, lessyour financial contribution; and• The total value of points lost divided by the total valueof points used to obtain the ticket.

https://api.agaassistance.com.au/Content/allianzB2C/attachments/PDS.pdf

 

[Masonic Phantom]

Re: US Dividend Miles - Award Booking Questions and General Discussion

I have just bought a policy direct from Allianz 20% off (code: vacation). Here's what the policy says re ff points flights cancellations:

We will pay you for loss of frequent flyer or similar air travelpoints you used to purchase an airline ticket followingcancellation of your air ticket, if you cannot recover the lostpoints from any other source. The cancellation must bedue to unforeseen circumstances outside of your control.We calculate the amount we pay you by multiplying:• The cost of an equivalent class airline ticket based on thequoted retail price at the time the ticket was issued, lessyour financial contribution; and• The total value of points lost divided by the total valueof points used to obtain the ticket.

https://api.agaassistance.com.au/Content/allianzB2C/attachments/PDS.pdf

There you go ..it's that simple..no problems.

 

[get me outta here]

Re: US Dividend Miles - Award Booking Questions and General Discussion

Pleased you think so. What does the last sentence mean? I'll try to get an interpretation in writing reminding them that there is a 14 day cooling off period.

There you go ..it's that simple..no problems.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Re: US Dividend Miles - Award Booking Questions and General Discussion

Pleased you think so. What does the last sentence mean? I'll try to get an interpretation in writing reminding them that there is a 14 day cooling off period.

it's just a complex way of saying they will give you the pro-rata value of the unused points.

'total value of points lost divided by total points used' is simply the value of the points for the unflown portion. So if you make it to Europe on USDM in F, but can't make the return, the calculation is revenue ticket x (75000 (lost for the return) divided by 150000 cost to buy the whole ticket) (ie .5).

 

[Flashback]

Re: US Dividend Miles - Award Booking Questions and General Discussion

The one time then where getting a cut price redemption doesn't play to your advantage then

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Re: US Dividend Miles - Award Booking Questions and General Discussion

The one time then where getting a cut price redemption doesn't play to your advantage then

Indeed! That would return a tidy 'profit'.

 

[get me outta here]

Re: US Dividend Miles - Award Booking Questions and General Discussion

And what about this part: The cost of an equivalent class airline ticket based on thequoted retail price at the time the ticket was issued, lessyour financial contribution; and•

The issue is, who pays for you to get home, if it's something that happens say half way through the trip? How can thye value points? There are so many questions.

it's just a complex way of saying they will give you the pro-rata value of the unused points.

'total value of points lost divided by total points used' is simply the value of the points for the unflown portion. So if you make it to Europe on USDM in F, but can't make the return, the calculation is revenue ticket x (75000 (lost for the return) divided by 150000 cost to buy the whole ticket) (ie .5).

 

[casanovawa]

Re: US Dividend Miles - Award Booking Questions and General Discussion

The one time then where getting a cut price redemption doesn't play to your advantage then

Well I may have gotten those original miles through a 100% buy or share promo, but perhaps I didn't make them aware of that, slipped my mind, so I just showed them the buy miles page which showed a rate of US 35 cents and the award chart of 110,000 miles to get Oz-US-Oz...

Taking that into account the $4,300 they paid out may have covered my $1,700 QF Y return flight from LAX and a new lot of 110k miles, so it worked out sort of ok in a way.... Plus US Air threw in a few miles as well for my lost which was nice of them...

When they were uhming and ahhing a bit, i did look up a few options for them to buy me a J class return flight to LAX to to just finish that portion of my trip and return home, which came in at about $7-8,000, which may have made the cash pay out for points not seem so bad...


As for those insurance clauses, what a load of gobbildy gook!!!