Why are retro claims so hopelessly inefficient?

[theevilmuppet]

Hi all,

I spent a month in the US at the end of 2014, and my travel agent (I won't be delegating planning of a trip again) did not supply my Velocity membership details to Hertz for a car hire arrangement I engaged in.

After much badgering (as the agent also managed to not supply any of my contact details to Hertz), I've managed to confirm the details of my booking with Hertz and have registered them with Velocity.

Additionally, a Virgin America (VX) flight from LAS to SFO did not feature my Velocity details. Part of this was due to the insistence of the agent's systems registering me as <LASTNAME> <SALUTATION><FIRSTNAME>, which results in Virgin America's systems being unable to assign Velocity details to said booking.

All that said, why on earth does it take well over 30 days for a retro claim to be successful? The integration between partners clearly exists and does not suffer delays and there is no basis for manual intervention by staff given the information requested for each claim.

Further, it is seemingly extremely rare that a retro claim involves a conversation with staff. One would assume this implies that the information requested in the retro claim forms is sufficient for decisions to be made.

Does anyone have any information justifying why retro claims take any more time than non-retro claims?

 

[JohnPhelan]

My experiences have not been good. Have had several Hertz rentals not credit points, even after sending all the details to Velocity. Never received any explanation as to why, which is just rude.

And flights on HA have taken almost six months to post (that's six months after lodging claim with proof).

Hopeless.

 

[RooFlyer]

A task that I imagine takes some ( gasp) manual checking and is very low priority to boot.

 

[edy4eva]

I once had a backlog of several car rentals and flights that did not credit and had to go through the retro claim process. They credited only the most recent ones and ignored an older much substantial premium car rental. I had to call, not once or twice, but three times, and send them a copy of the rental agreement (which ironically featured the VA number on it) before they actually credited it.
The missing flights were as a result of how some OTA handle my surname which is two words with a space in between. It was frustrating having to call after waiting out in weeks for the retro claim to eventuate, and adding insult to injury, each call ended with a 'lesson' given by the VA agent about how I should have my name exactly match that on VA systems (but I did!).

Since that ordeal over a year ago, compounded with an incident (think the kind ACA would pick on, but it was quite concerning) whereby I kept being promised via email -without me asking for that by one of their managers that would be followed up and they NEVER did, I simply stopped flying VA altogether (not on a paid booking anyway). This is the first time I actually come out about this.

This year I am forced to take them again due to the reimbursement policy and must book the cheapest fare regardless of the airline.

 

[esseeeayeenn]

I earned the required 1000 status credits to earn platinum status on the 9th of February.
However some of my SCs expired that day. So by the time the SCs for that flight were credited on the 11th, I appeared to be short and the system didn't upgrade my status. I called and the call centre acknowledged the status entitlement and said they would email "management" asking them to sort it out. They recommended I monitor my account and call back in a couple of days if it hadn't been processed.

I called back on the 13th and received an explanation which might explain some other delays.
Apparently if the call centre is busy, back office staff are removed from administrative duties and used to supplement the call centre staff.
So I would imagine processing of missing points claims would be a very low priority indeed, and they would only be processed in quiet periods.

Incidentally my status was updated this morning.

 

[theevilmuppet]

A task that I imagine takes some ( gasp) manual checking and is very low priority to boot.

With correctly entered details, there is precisely zero reason for any manual process to be involved.

 

[theevilmuppet]

I called back on the 13th and received an explanation which might explain some other delays.
Apparently if the call centre is busy, back office staff are removed from administrative duties and used to supplement the call centre staff.
So I would imagine processing of missing points claims would be a very low priority indeed, and they would only be processed in quiet periods.

This is the thing that puzzles me though - there is absolutely no reason for manual intervention to occur for retro claims given the details asked.

Virgin America (VX) don't have this problem as they are able to look up VA details in real time when adding Velocity details to bookings. It's a simple matter of technology being deployed properly.

 

[esseeeayeenn]

It's one thing for a partner to feed info to velocity automatically. Another thing for velocity to be able to automatically interrogate the partner's system. That may have to be done manually however complete the information you provide.

 

[RooFlyer]

With correctly entered details, there is precisely zero reason for any manual process to be involved.

Sorry, that's 'precisely' nonsense. If one entered correct details in the reservation in the first place there should be 'precisely' no reason to need a retro claim - but it happens all the time. When I sent a scan of my partner airline BP to substantiate my retro claim, after they rejected it the first time - precisely mind you - I imagine a human (AKA manual process) had to look at it and decide whether it was legitimate.

Dr Strangelove's assertion that "It vill all be done by computer" has yet to come to pass.

 

[theevilmuppet]

It's one thing for a partner to feed info to velocity automatically. Another thing for velocity to be able to automatically interrogate the partner's system. That may have to be done manually however complete the information you provide.

It is, but it clearly can be done. If this has not been implemented, one should surely ask why.

 

[theevilmuppet]

Sorry, that's 'precisely' nonsense. If one entered correct details in the reservation in the first place there should be 'precisely' no reason to need a retro claim - but it happens all the time. When I sent a scan of my partner airline BP to substantiate my retro claim, after they rejected it the first time - precisely mind you - I imagine a human (AKA manual process) had to look at it and decide whether it was legitimate.

Dr Strangelove's assertion that "It vill all be done by computer" has yet to come to pass.

I agree with some of your observations, however your emphasis adds nothing to the conversation. Further, an example I have provided shows that issues that should not arise do arise, resulting in retro claims being required.

Your simplistic statements about there never being a need for retro claims in the case of things working correctly assumes that all claimants are enrolled prior to undertaking the activity for which earn is being requested.

It's a simple case of integration - in cases where all details match, a simple comparison not requiring any form of human intervention can be performed.

I admit that there are cases whereby some intervention may be required, however these should be very rare. In the example I provided, addition some incredibly simple logic would have not resulted in the claim taking over 30 days to be so much as acknowledged, let alone actually actioned.

 

[RooFlyer]

Funny how I keep simplistically thinking back to Dr Strangelove when reading this thread, although it probably adds nothing to the conversation (sorry).

Simple 'integration' - wouldn't that be a great idea for all of mankind?

"Ze computer vill integrate all your details and decide; no human intervention vill be necessary to be performed."

"Ze logic vill be performed; if you are not enrolled however, ze computer vill not be able to register the activity being requested."



(ps if you think that either the VA or QF IT teams could program the opening of a can of beans, let alone automatically solve retro claims, I have a bridge in Sydney I'd like to sell you. Have a bit of a trawl through the many threads here about such.)

 

[juddles]

.... in cases where all details match, a simple comparison not requiring any form of human intervention can be performed......

I believe that whenever an airline (or any other modern business) can employ a robot or computer instead of a costly human being, they DO. If there is ¨human intervention¨ (which clearly there is), then it is because the airlines have not found a way to avoid that!!

 

[theevilmuppet]

Funny how I keep simplistically thinking back to Dr Strangelove when reading this thread, although it probably adds nothing to the conversation (sorry).

Simple 'integration' - wouldn't that be a great idea for all of mankind?

"Ze computer vill integrate all your details and decide; no human intervention vill be necessary to be performed."

"Ze logic vill be performed; if you are not enrolled however, ze computer vill not be able to register the activity being requested."


(ps if you think that either the VA or QF IT teams could program the opening of a can of beans, let alone automatically solve retro claims, I have a bridge in Sydney I'd like to sell you. Have a bit of a trawl through the many threads here about such.)

You sir, hereby win an internet for your reference, image and offer of a bridge.

Given the state of the Virgin website and so on, I agree with you on the IT team competency side of things.

 

[theevilmuppet]

I believe that whenever an airline (or any other modern business) can employ a robot or computer instead of a costly human being, they DO. If there is ¨human intervention¨ (which clearly there is), then it is because the airlines have not found a way to avoid that!!

That's the thing though - there are definitely ways of doing this and no reason not to do so unless it's not being correctly prioritised.

Given how long it took for points-based upgrades to become available online, I think that speaks volumes about the competency of the IT team involved and the level of effort the business is willing to support.

 

[uanthony]

It just is not good enough with regards to these retro claims, I commented on another thread about claims. I have been credited after contacting the Velocity rep on here (who was very helpful) but none of my other family member claims have been credited.


Virgin boast about their network with their partner airlines yet we are the ones that have to grovel and chase our claims even when they are put on the bookings. I thought in this day of modern technology that this would not be so manual. You wait on hold for ten minutes only to be told that it is up to the partner airline to give the points and status credits. It just sound absurd.